Definitely my new band name for a fusion jazz quartet. Or possibly black metal...
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Special Edition Build Off - Ariox
- Thread starter cholyoke
- Start date
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- aria pro zzb ox
It’s gonna be my stage name as an exotic dancer 
And we're back for the final push! Routing out two spots and adding materials to fill the routs. The old neck had a heel adjust, which was not necessary anymore with the new neck. Made a routing template from some routing templates (cue Xzibit) and made a nice square channel between the neck pocket and the neck pickup cavity:
Made a piece of wood using the safe-t-planer which fit beautifully. Or at least fit well enough to file down later. Still working out the kinks of using the safe-t-planer.
Same deal with filling the space that will become the clamato unit cavity. I thinned a piece of birch plywood down to fit the hole I was going to make and here it is covering the old bridge rout:
Got out the templates again and paired them with some scraps to define the hole:
And a little routing and chiseling later, the machined piece of wood more or less fits the cavity! Only screwed up one of the corners while chiseling, which is pretty good for me.
No pictures, but these new pieces of wood have both been epoxied in place with West Systems epoxy. I thought that stuff was supposed to be clear, but mine is brown (105/205). Whatever. Next steps are making templates for the neck pocket and clamato unit and making new holes in the body. That and some other stuff. I made a list today.
Made a piece of wood using the safe-t-planer which fit beautifully. Or at least fit well enough to file down later. Still working out the kinks of using the safe-t-planer.
Same deal with filling the space that will become the clamato unit cavity. I thinned a piece of birch plywood down to fit the hole I was going to make and here it is covering the old bridge rout:
Got out the templates again and paired them with some scraps to define the hole:
And a little routing and chiseling later, the machined piece of wood more or less fits the cavity! Only screwed up one of the corners while chiseling, which is pretty good for me.
No pictures, but these new pieces of wood have both been epoxied in place with West Systems epoxy. I thought that stuff was supposed to be clear, but mine is brown (105/205). Whatever. Next steps are making templates for the neck pocket and clamato unit and making new holes in the body. That and some other stuff. I made a list today.
Attachments
More templates! Made a template for the neck pocket using the bondo trick that DarkHorse (I think?) had in one of his threads. Brilliant! Green teflon tape worked like a champ and spared the neck from the bondo. Of course if you remove that protective layer of plastic from the acrylic sheet before slathering on the bondo, the bondo sticks to the acrylic. So I sanded off the bondo I couldn't chip off, which made my template not look as nice as the Stewmac ones.
The holes in the nicer looking side are for the clamato unit, which needs to be recessed into the body 0.2" and then cavities below that need to be routed. Or I need to shim the neck up 0.2". I'm planning on the recessed clamato unit because that solves another potential problem. (I'm foreshadowing to next week's episode, kids!)
Did the neck template work? The second time it was perfect. The first time it was slightly misaligned and the neck was crooked. Jackass! As you can see from my high-tech alignment checking device, the center of the neck is now parallel to the centerline of the body I drew using the old neck. You cannot see the centerline because the string covers it. Huzzah!
NICE! Need to finish the clamato template and rout that epoxy/plywood mess out. The pencil line perpendicular to the string is the scale length marker.
And since I am a spaz and can't focus on one project, meet my super-bitchin' maple fretless neck, which has a ton of cyanoacrylate on it and is in the process of being finished after languishing in the basement for a long time. Ventilation in the winter is tough. CA is nasty stuff.
Below is the body, which used to have a wax/stain finish. I have been stripping it off with lacquer thinner sitting outside in the nice NE Ohio weather. I am at the point that naptha evaporates from the surface semi-quickly. The internet says that this means the wax is gone (hopefully). I was stripping the wax because I need to repair a routing error from when I was routing the bridge pickup (both are reverse P). The template slipped while routing. Never take the template off and then put it back on using the same double stick tape. This error happened several months ago. I need to splice a block of alder into that spot, restain it and clearcoat it. Maybe I'll go with Truoil. Who knows. I also need fix the bridge holes since I am no longer using the Schaller bridge.
Also steamed some dents out of the top for a quick and dirty plant table I'm making for the breakfast room. I didn't see the dents when I picked out the sheet of birch plywood. (Jackass!) I am amazed at all the neat things I learn to do by going on the internet.
Anyway, time for a beer and some emails. Maybe I should vacuum, too.
The holes in the nicer looking side are for the clamato unit, which needs to be recessed into the body 0.2" and then cavities below that need to be routed. Or I need to shim the neck up 0.2". I'm planning on the recessed clamato unit because that solves another potential problem. (I'm foreshadowing to next week's episode, kids!)
Did the neck template work? The second time it was perfect. The first time it was slightly misaligned and the neck was crooked. Jackass! As you can see from my high-tech alignment checking device, the center of the neck is now parallel to the centerline of the body I drew using the old neck. You cannot see the centerline because the string covers it. Huzzah!
NICE! Need to finish the clamato template and rout that epoxy/plywood mess out. The pencil line perpendicular to the string is the scale length marker.
And since I am a spaz and can't focus on one project, meet my super-bitchin' maple fretless neck, which has a ton of cyanoacrylate on it and is in the process of being finished after languishing in the basement for a long time. Ventilation in the winter is tough. CA is nasty stuff.
Below is the body, which used to have a wax/stain finish. I have been stripping it off with lacquer thinner sitting outside in the nice NE Ohio weather. I am at the point that naptha evaporates from the surface semi-quickly. The internet says that this means the wax is gone (hopefully). I was stripping the wax because I need to repair a routing error from when I was routing the bridge pickup (both are reverse P). The template slipped while routing. Never take the template off and then put it back on using the same double stick tape. This error happened several months ago. I need to splice a block of alder into that spot, restain it and clearcoat it. Maybe I'll go with Truoil. Who knows. I also need fix the bridge holes since I am no longer using the Schaller bridge.
Also steamed some dents out of the top for a quick and dirty plant table I'm making for the breakfast room. I didn't see the dents when I picked out the sheet of birch plywood. (Jackass!) I am amazed at all the neat things I learn to do by going on the internet.
Anyway, time for a beer and some emails. Maybe I should vacuum, too.
Put away that router! I finished the clamato pocket and cleaning up in the pickup routs. The clamato unit fits in the clamato pocket and the screw holes in the bridge pocket line up with the screw holes in the bridge base plate (well enough). A pretty good job for my mad leuthin' skills. It looks perfect from 10 feet away and not bad from two or three feet away.
I love it when you finish with part of a project and get to put tools away. The clamato unit is centered on the center of the neck and looks sweet with the bar installed. I wiped the body down with naptha after sanding the top to get an idea of what it would look like as a natural finish, too.
The naptha shot has thrown me for a loop since it looks pretty good as-is. The spliced in blocks are kinda low brow, but so am I. This ain't an Alembic, either. The glue joints between the five boards that make up the body are not parallel to the neck, unlike my little spliced piece of wood at the end of the neck pocket.
I'm on the fence about my next idea, which I will not reveal to keep up the suspense for the viewers at home. I suppose I need to make up my mind pretty darned soon since the due date is 11 days from now.
Still need to drill the tuner and screw holes in the neck and cut it to shape, but that won't take more than an evening.
I love it when you finish with part of a project and get to put tools away. The clamato unit is centered on the center of the neck and looks sweet with the bar installed. I wiped the body down with naptha after sanding the top to get an idea of what it would look like as a natural finish, too.
The naptha shot has thrown me for a loop since it looks pretty good as-is. The spliced in blocks are kinda low brow, but so am I. This ain't an Alembic, either. The glue joints between the five boards that make up the body are not parallel to the neck, unlike my little spliced piece of wood at the end of the neck pocket.
I'm on the fence about my next idea, which I will not reveal to keep up the suspense for the viewers at home. I suppose I need to make up my mind pretty darned soon since the due date is 11 days from now.
Still need to drill the tuner and screw holes in the neck and cut it to shape, but that won't take more than an evening.
- Apr 18, 2008
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- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
Thank you for the kind words. I'll try to make a video with the submission, but need to get a pink spandex gimp suit and feather boa for a video. And some sort of digital recording interface. I am excited to try the Kahler out. It was a Craigslist find (only $75!).
Drilled the tuner holes with only minor breakout on the back side, combi-flapped the frets and cut the excess off of the headstock to start the process of filing it down to the correct shape. This neck is not the original neck with the blocks shown in the first post. I decided to go with no markers instead because of all of the...figuring...in the wood. The blocks are too busy when paired with the busy-looking body. This neck made its first appearance in post 43.
Holes ended up exactly where I planned for them to go! The dust is either from the combi-flap or band saw. The outlines will be the final headstock shape. Before doing starting to file it down, I decided to test fit the shiny Hipshot tuners.
Looks like they fit perfectly! The point on the outer edge of the tuner peg where the strings start their wind is aligned so that the strings go straight through the nut. That should minimize friction with the strings moving back and forth during massive clamato divebombs.
Other than one side being about a mm off, can anyone find the accident? (answer below after some spaces)
The tuners have to be backwards (treble on bass side and vice versa) in order for the string paths to be absolutely straight. I'm not sure what I did wrong during my test fittings, but I messed that up. If the tuners are the right way around, they have to be angled backwards towards the neck, like they are on Warwick basses. The problem is caused by the screws that hold the tuner shafts on the two tuners closest together bumping into each other. If the string paths were not straight, they could be shifted slightly and still be oriented with the tops parallel to the edge of the headstock.
Wait, that is not an accident, it is now a vintage reverse wind tuner! People pay extra for those!
Holes ended up exactly where I planned for them to go! The dust is either from the combi-flap or band saw. The outlines will be the final headstock shape. Before doing starting to file it down, I decided to test fit the shiny Hipshot tuners.
Looks like they fit perfectly! The point on the outer edge of the tuner peg where the strings start their wind is aligned so that the strings go straight through the nut. That should minimize friction with the strings moving back and forth during massive clamato divebombs.
Other than one side being about a mm off, can anyone find the accident? (answer below after some spaces)
The tuners have to be backwards (treble on bass side and vice versa) in order for the string paths to be absolutely straight. I'm not sure what I did wrong during my test fittings, but I messed that up. If the tuners are the right way around, they have to be angled backwards towards the neck, like they are on Warwick basses. The problem is caused by the screws that hold the tuner shafts on the two tuners closest together bumping into each other. If the string paths were not straight, they could be shifted slightly and still be oriented with the tops parallel to the edge of the headstock.
Wait, that is not an accident, it is now a vintage reverse wind tuner! People pay extra for those!
Hope that my upcoming hole drilling goes as well as yours..........
Measure and mark twice...and make a cardboard template to make sure everything fits correctly before drilling any wood. And we still have a week or so to buy replacement necks and other parts, right?
Painting doesn't take any time at all, right? Do they make foam rollers for the varathane? The last room I painted with rollers took no time at all to dry.
I've seen a lot of people saying "drill small pilot hole, then drill with final size bit only half way through, flip over and drill through from back side using your small pilot hole as your guide." Seems like solid advice.
My trick is to drill tuner holes with a sacrificial piece of wood behind (under) it. Also, going through it slowly and having a Brad point or forstner bit helps, too.
I've seen a lot of people saying "drill small pilot hole, then drill with final size bit only half way through, flip over and drill through from back side using your small pilot hole as your guide." Seems like solid advice.
Very good advice. I made guide dimples with a punch and used a 9/16 brad point bit, but the backer board on my drill press table needs to be replaced. I was too lazy to put a piece of scrap wood beneath the neck, too. I have slight blowout in the back, which is visible in the second image below.
I sanded/filed everything down to the final headstock shape tonight. Which was good work to do after a crappy day. I sanded everything but the fretboard with 320. The neck came with a very thin coat of polyurethane, which is gone for the most part. I'll make sure it is gone this evening.
Front:
Back: (you can see the minor blowouts, which could have been prevented, but my shame will be covered by tuner backs)
And in some completely unrelated experimentation that I did last month, I do not have a spray rig, so I use Minwax oil-based wipe on polyurethane for most of my shelves, etc. I have a nice grainy alder P Bass body that needs a clear coat, but I want to highlight the grain a little rather than just using a plain clear coat. An picture of an old mock up is below:
I see mixed advice about using Tru Oil and covering with water-based polyurethane on the internet, ranging from totally OK to oil and water can never mix!
My hypothesis is that once cured, all of the volatiles/compounds in Tru Oil that would affect the adhesion of water-based polyurethane will be gone and the poly will have no problems adhering to the surface. My second hypothesis is that alder coated with Tru Oil with polyurethane over it will look better than polyurethane alone because the Tru Oil will highlight the grain. Since this is a semi-scientific test, the alder above is the control experiment (nothing done to it). Below are tests of how different polyurethanes affect the appearance of the alder and how a layer of cured Tru Oil affects the polyurethanes.
I put one coat of TruOil on the alder, waited for it to fully cure (6 or 7 days), lightly sanded the surface with 220 and put various water-based polyurethanes on the surface. I did not thin or modify them and the blocks were all horizontal.
For my first tests, I put a bunch of thin coats on using a T-shirt applicator with the same schedule as Bruce Johnson uses with a sprayer (four or five coats separated by ~20-60 minutes, let cure for a few hours and sand). The T-shirt applicators have worked well for me using Minwax Oil-based polyurethane on shelves and the like. I did a few repetitions of this cycle with the water-based polyurethanes, but was underwhelmed by the results with the T-shirt, which never seemed to build much and had bubbles and lint. I do not have any pictures of these because they sucked.
I sanded these down almost to the Tru Oil, and globbed two coats of each on using a foam brush. The surface was milky bluish white. I applied the coats a few hours apart with a sanding in between the coats as per the instructions on the cans.
Our first contestant is Varathane Ultimate Gloss, the favorite of TalkBass Luthers (left is with Tru Oil, right is without, same exact paint schedule):
The Tru Oil brings out a bunch of little light and dark colored highlights in the grain, which are not as visible in the poly-only wood. Both are glossy as heck, but you can't see the depth of the shine in these images. I think that if I kept up the coats and polished, both would have deep glossy shines, just like the sprayed version. No problems with the Varathane adhering to the cured Tru Oil surface. It leveled well after brushing on with the foam brush. I can't say how it would do being wiped on a complex surface like a guitar body, but I am impressed.
The second batch is Varathane Ultimate Satin (left with Tru Oil, right without):
Both look good, but the Tru Oil brings out a bunch of highlights in the alder that are really neat. The satin is satin. Not as fancy looking as the Gloss, but a smooth coat and it leveled well on its own. Easy to work with, too.
Next up is good ol' oil-based Minwax wipe on (no Tru Oil because that would be silly with an oil wipe on poly over it).
Pretty good. This was only three or four coats, 3-4 hours between each coat, light sanding between each coat. The Minwax doesn't bring out all of the details that the Tru Oil does. Maybe I should have done the Tru Oil beforehand, too. This stuff works well, though, even if it is stinky. I use a respirator, ventilate the basement shop area and no cats are allowed in the room during painting/finishing because they do not make cat respirators.
And finally, Minwax water-based wipe on satin poly (TruOil right, none on left): For some reason when I ordered gloss, they sent me satin, so this isn't a perfect test.
I had lots of problems with bubbles using both T-shirt bits and foam brushes and never was happy with the result. The satin doesn't look as good as the Varathane. It also smells more than the Varathane (it is not the oil-modified water polyurethane).
Verdict is the Varathane is easy to work with and will stick to cured Tru Oil. Foam brushes work better than T-shirts with the Varathane. T-shirts are good with the oil-based Minwax, though. Sources of error may also include incompetence of the technician.
Next step is to start experimenting with the Rexbeti sprayer and the varathane, but not for the Ariox.
Sanded, sanded and sanded a bit more today. I also drilled the holes for the string retainer, tuner set screws, neck screws and the all important bridge ground wire. I had a major crisis, which turned out to be not as major as I thought. The clamato unit instructions give explicit dimensional instructions about the heights of the top of the frets and top of the string rollers on the clamato unit. My neck was 0.37" above the top surface of the body, so I made a cavity 0.23" below the surface, which was perfect.
While getting ready to mark the hole locations on the neck, I checked the string paths using some string and they were laying on top of the frets and bending down towards the clamato. Not good. The only way to get the strings off of the base of the darned frets was to jack the string roller things as high as possible, with maybe one thread engaged on the set screw. Not good. I checked my calculations and measurements, started cursing the (NSFTB) people at Kahler for putting bad instructions on the internet so people who buy used clamato units on craigslist can do right by their used clamatos.
Turns out, the (NSFTB) people at Aria angle the neck pocket down by a degree or so. After taking a few minutes to think about the problem, looking at the router, I realized I could shim it in reverse of normal neck shimming. Looked at the website of my neighborhood luther store down the road in Athens, who sell nice premade shims with and without holes. Then I remembered that I have a ton of veneer because I was going to put a veneer of birdseye maple on the front and back of this bass, with a veneer of walnut in the center to look like a faux neck through bass. I was also going to stain the sides with a dark walnut. I have a small walnut burl veneer for the headstock, too. Boutique Cheeze. I have ditched those plans after growing to like the patchwork of wood already there.
I calculated what I needed and am in the process of making a shim for the neck. I did a mockup of everything except the electronics, which came out of the holes they are going back into. It looks good and will darken up somewhat as I start applying oil-based stuff tomorrow or Sabado Gigante.
HECK YEAH! I put a couple of strings on and did some divebombs and harmonics. It was TOTALLY AWESOME. I put the shim material in the neck pocket to check that it was enough when the strings were on.
During my crisis and solution period, I got some crap on my nice, sanded to 400 grit surface, so I'll have to wipe it down with naptha. I also made a couple of small dings, because of course I did while I was freaking out. Those will be the soldering iron and a little water. Then I'll sand the surface again, let everything dry overnight and start putting goop on the wood. Should be able to sneak it in under the wire, barring any other time-consuming disasters.
While getting ready to mark the hole locations on the neck, I checked the string paths using some string and they were laying on top of the frets and bending down towards the clamato. Not good. The only way to get the strings off of the base of the darned frets was to jack the string roller things as high as possible, with maybe one thread engaged on the set screw. Not good. I checked my calculations and measurements, started cursing the (NSFTB) people at Kahler for putting bad instructions on the internet so people who buy used clamato units on craigslist can do right by their used clamatos.
Turns out, the (NSFTB) people at Aria angle the neck pocket down by a degree or so. After taking a few minutes to think about the problem, looking at the router, I realized I could shim it in reverse of normal neck shimming. Looked at the website of my neighborhood luther store down the road in Athens, who sell nice premade shims with and without holes. Then I remembered that I have a ton of veneer because I was going to put a veneer of birdseye maple on the front and back of this bass, with a veneer of walnut in the center to look like a faux neck through bass. I was also going to stain the sides with a dark walnut. I have a small walnut burl veneer for the headstock, too. Boutique Cheeze. I have ditched those plans after growing to like the patchwork of wood already there.
I calculated what I needed and am in the process of making a shim for the neck. I did a mockup of everything except the electronics, which came out of the holes they are going back into. It looks good and will darken up somewhat as I start applying oil-based stuff tomorrow or Sabado Gigante.
HECK YEAH! I put a couple of strings on and did some divebombs and harmonics. It was TOTALLY AWESOME. I put the shim material in the neck pocket to check that it was enough when the strings were on.
During my crisis and solution period, I got some crap on my nice, sanded to 400 grit surface, so I'll have to wipe it down with naptha. I also made a couple of small dings, because of course I did while I was freaking out. Those will be the soldering iron and a little water. Then I'll sand the surface again, let everything dry overnight and start putting goop on the wood. Should be able to sneak it in under the wire, barring any other time-consuming disasters.
Fixed the small issues and sanded to 600. Super nice. Put on the first coat of Tru Oil this morning, which looks really nice on the body. Not doing as much darkening to the maple neck (not pictured).
The body is slurping it up. All of the places which had dents or very damaged paint before stripping and sanding are way darker than the unharmed spots. Most of the damaged areas were not visible after sanding and have reappeared. All of the dark splotches on the lower side of the bass are damaged places.
Closer shot:
Evidence of a life lived. Anyhow, I'll keep throwing coats on until Tuesday, put the electronics back in, tweak the neck and then start to make some noise!
The body is slurping it up. All of the places which had dents or very damaged paint before stripping and sanding are way darker than the unharmed spots. Most of the damaged areas were not visible after sanding and have reappeared. All of the dark splotches on the lower side of the bass are damaged places.
Closer shot:
Evidence of a life lived. Anyhow, I'll keep throwing coats on until Tuesday, put the electronics back in, tweak the neck and then start to make some noise!
You are very possibly right. I know enough about wood to fill a golf-ball dimple. How would the dents affect the sanding sealer? Would those areas be pushed in more and still be sealed whereas the other areas have had the sealer removed? I am intrigued.
I sanded the living poop out of it. There was a layer of white junk beneath the paint. It took some time to sand off the obvious stuff using 220. It took additional sanding to get the wood color to change, which I assumed was the depth of the sealer penetration. I know that I have removed at least 0.03" off of the top of the body by sanding after routing the clamato pocket, which doesn't include whatever I removed before. I started at 80 and worked my way up to 600.
Those darker areas definitely correspond to known dents/gouges in the paint. The first image is a detail of the bottom corner near the controls before cleaning. You can see the places where the paint was missing and/or cracked (and the scunge around the knobs, on the pickups, bridge, strings...). These spots correspond to the dark spots above.
This second image is right after I cleaned the bass and you can see the places that are damaged along the lower side, which each correspond to a dark spot.
I sanded the living poop out of it. There was a layer of white junk beneath the paint. It took some time to sand off the obvious stuff using 220. It took additional sanding to get the wood color to change, which I assumed was the depth of the sealer penetration. I know that I have removed at least 0.03" off of the top of the body by sanding after routing the clamato pocket, which doesn't include whatever I removed before. I started at 80 and worked my way up to 600.
Those darker areas definitely correspond to known dents/gouges in the paint. The first image is a detail of the bottom corner near the controls before cleaning. You can see the places where the paint was missing and/or cracked (and the scunge around the knobs, on the pickups, bridge, strings...). These spots correspond to the dark spots above.
This second image is right after I cleaned the bass and you can see the places that are damaged along the lower side, which each correspond to a dark spot.
I wonder if the structure of the wood at the cellular scale is torn apart by the denting. That could cause higher porosity allowing more more finish to soak in the surface. Shame I don't have a good microscope at home.
