Double Bass SPIROCORES ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!!!!!

[the_Ryan]

How held down is the string when you play it? If you stop the string and then try to pluck it (but don’t actually pluck it) does the string roll under your left hand? If it does it might be an issue of not being able to fully stop the string. Does it happen in all parts of the fingerboard on the E string or just in the lowest positions? If it’s the lowest position it could be the nut height that’s making it harder to fully stop the string.

It could also have something to do with the fingerboard curve and scoop, although that stuff is a little like black magic to me.

The presence or absence of a Romberg bevel shouldn’t really affect things if the bridge and nut are cut properly.

 

[Jason Sypher]

Alright y'all, I need some 'splaining on the whole growl/buzz thing. My main bass is an American Standard (with a Romberg bevel) that sports a Stark E that belonged to my dad. I love it. Tons of power, can't choke it out, big boom, can really kick a jam in the butt.

I picked up a second American Standard (no Romberg bevel) a month ago. I put a new Stark E on it. And. . .it GROWLS on the closed notes. F to G#. Not a big fan. Even worse, when I hit one of those closed notes real hard, it buzzes. I can mitigate this with technique, using the tips of my left hand, or altering the plucking angle of my right hand to be at more of a right angle, but neither of these are ideal. If I'm playing a C tune, for instance, and bouncing real quick between the A and E strings, it's almost necessary to play with the pads. For the right hand, it just feels wildly unnatural, I'm effectively 180ing the movement of everything wrist on up.

Thoughts? Will it break in eventually and get less growly/buzzy? It's lost a lot of brightness already but the growl/buzz ain't changed. Setup issue? The action's a little lower on this bass, mebbe 9/16, though it is higher at the nut, about two credit cards worth. Something to do with the bevel? The neck is thicker on this one (which I really like) but mebbe that's messing with my technique?

Much appreciated!

Likely a set up issue. I suspect the the fingerboard is planed differently and that is why you are getting this sustain (and buzzes). If you have an adjustable bridge you might raise it a bit and see how it affects the sound. Otherwise see a luthier. That said you might be surprised how quickly you can adapt to a different sound and even find some new uses for the available palette. First raise those strings a bit and go from there.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Yeah. If you want less growl the board will need more scoop planed into it, which will make it harder to play.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Also, I have to add that Starks are gonna growl. It’s kind of the Stark E thing. If you don’t like it, maybe swap out the string for something a little more tame. I like it a lot, though, which is why I use them. You just have to learn to control it when situation calls for it.

By way of example, tonight I played a concert where I was part of a jazz septet onstage with an orchestra. There were times when that growl was welcome, and in those places I leaned into it. There were other times where it wasn’t appropriate, and in those times I played on the tips and lightened up with the RH to get the desired effect. I really like to tonal possibilities of that string, but it does require some extra care on the part of the player to bring out what the music calls for.

 

[Don Hergert]

If you're comparing the new Stark with your Dad's Stark, that's problematic. There's no comparison of a well used and biologically infused string with a brand new string. Plus TI probably has at least slightly changed the "forumla" for Stark E strings since your Dad got that one. I would definitely not expect them to behave exactly the same.

Also, that Romberg may be exactly what your Dad's Stark needs. On your DB without the Romberg, it might growl too much too -- scoop, as mentioned.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The growl part of a Spiro. When I got mynewly made bass with Spiro S42 (4/4 mittel on a 110 cm scale) several decades ago the E did growl a lot. One reason might have been that my previous bass had different strings that I couldn‘t remember and had a shorter scale at a bit lower tension, so I needed to adjust to the higher pressure needed for the new instrument, but it was also a characteristic of the string.
I learned how to get more or less growl from it like you did. Played mostly jazz on it, but also a bit of orchestral music.

String height was a bit high for Spitos, but mostly on the higher strings. (The luthier said I should keep it there for a while because the top might come a bit down under the new pressure.)

On the new bass the Spiros were very bright (at least for my ear, coming from a plywood with older arco strings) and since I didn‘t play much at that time, it took about a year to tame that brightness a bit down. But that was 1987 and the strings (remember Mittel) have changed a bit since then due to a small change in the wires from their supplier.

You might want to exchange the E strings on your basses temporarily to get an impression if it is the status of the strings or the setup/bass.

 

[Ben Noblit]

Many thanks y'all. @the_Ryan I'm fairly confident I'm getting a good stop, nonetheless I'm gonna file it down at the nut a bit to match the first bass, see if that helps. Yeah @Don Hergert ya ain't wrong, I was trying to figure out whether they sound like that only after 20 years or if one year would do. . .Thanks @Jason Sypher and Shawn, I reckon I'll play with string height a bit and if it's still bugging me by summer I'll take it to the luthier. I pretty much only play in the money positions anyway.
And Jason and @Chris Fitzgerald, I got to admit it's a lot of fun sliding and playing turnarounds down there right now, just got to find an actual use for it. I don't mind a little growl ordinarily, but this is a bit much.

 

[Earl]

Not enough scoop under the E string.

 

[jmpiwonka]

Agree about setup, specifically the board has less scoop. But..the new string is probably a bit growlier as well.
But old spiros still growl, just less high frequencies so it sounds smoother.

 

[ole Jason]

Does anyone have thoughts on going from S42 mittels to 3885 weichs? The mittels sound great on my bass but I find the tension a little harsh in thumb position. I guess my concern is that the difference between those two sets wouldn't really make a noticeable difference. On the other hand I'm not sure if going to S42 weichs would be too drastic of a difference. I know this has been discussed a lot but I'm always interested in hearing new opinions on this stuff.

String length is 41 5/8" and overstand is ~28mm.

I'm also going to bring the bridge down a touch today and see where that gets me with the mittels.

 

[Ben Noblit]

You might want to exchange the E strings on your basses temporarily to get an impression if it is the status of the strings or the setup/bass.

I just did this! The older string sounds how I want it to sound, but still has the tendency to buzz out if I hit it too hard on the new bass. Fingerboard scoop it is.

 

[damonsmith]

I really like to tonal possibilities of that string, but it does require some extra care on the part of the player to bring out what the music calls for.

Yeah, if you are not interested in a rich musical experience, they are not for you!

 

[Ryan in PDX]

going from S42 mittels to 3885 weichs?

I believe @TroyK did this, to some degree.

I have been playing more, and feeling the tension with my S42 mittels. So I lowered them a bit. My hands appreciate it, but I kinda miss the extra power, and really miss the "pop," especially for the old school big band stuff. I have started wondering if raised-up Weichs would be a good compromise.

To be fair, it's the first time I've thought about strings in over four years...

 

[Jason Hollar]

It’s been a while since I’ve used s42 mitts but I’ve used the s42 Weichs a good bit more. That said I’ve found the 3/4 Weichs to be an excellent compromise.

I am mitt curious though as I’ve not tried a set on my current bass. I could see bumping the G ala Troy.

 

[Martin Beer]

I've had both 3885 Weich and S42 Mittel on my bass, but not directly one after the other, so any comparison will be affected by memory. I'm pretty sure I noticed the skinny feel of the G string more on the 3885 Weich set, the S42 Mittel G works better for me. Otherwise there's some difference in perceived tightness, but not radically different.

 

[Rebop]

I have a mixed set on one of my basses that I absolutely love. S42 Weich E with S42 Mittel ADG. Might not work for every bass but I really like how it sounds and feels now.

 

[lrhbass]

S42 Weichs with with a raise, on your adjusters could put you where you want to be.

 

[TroyK]

Does anyone have thoughts on going from S42 mittels to 3885 weichs? ...

I believe @TroyK did this, to some degree.

I have been playing more, and feeling the tension with my S42 mittels. So I lowered them a bit. My hands appreciate it, but I kinda miss the extra power, and really miss the "pop," especially for the old school big band stuff. I have started wondering if raised-up Weichs would be a good compromise.

To be fair, it's the first time I've thought about strings in over four years...

Sort of. I've tried a lot of strings on my bass, including several gauges of Spirocores. From memory S42 Mittel, S42 Weich, Solos (not sure which ones), 3885 Weich and as someone else mentioned, I replaced the 3885 Weich G with the S42 Mittel G. I'll also point out, just for clarity, that the Mittels have much more age and playing time on them. I bought the 3885 Weich new. Tough to say how my experience with them might have been different if all of the strings were new or otherwise the same age.

I used S42 Weich for years coming out of the best set-up that I ever had. For the most part, they sounded great pizz and arco, but I never liked the wirey gauge and I had to change my playing approach a bit to avoid overplaying and getting tangled up in them. I tried to go back to them during the pandemic and I couldn't get them to sound acceptable or even how I remember and HATED the feel.

My bass just can't deal with the tension of Mittels and they've never stayed on very long. If I had a different bass, I would probably try them first, but they're just not going to work on this one. I think mostly it is the A string which seems to be out of balance (more tension) than the rest of that set. I have thought about trying the D and/or E string from my Mittel set, but I'm happy with what I'm getting from the Weich and just don't see a reason.

3885 Weichs are more like S42 Mittel than S42 Weich. They don't generally feel thin/wirey to me and they don't sound buzzy and snarly like the S42W did the last time I tried them (but not how I remember them from years back) <setup>

The S42M G string is enough larger in gauge to the 3885W to improve the under-the-fingers feel, but if you trust the numbers, it is somehow slightly lower in tension. Though it is older and I can't be sure what a new string would sound like, it's a beautiful sonic match as well. I did feel like the 3885W G was a little thin feeling, but not nearly as much as the S42W.

I'm focusing on playing better and not thinking (or posting) much about things like strings this year and it's starting to pay off a little bit.

 

[Selim]

I generally don’t like thin/light gauge strings (DB and BG) - nevertheless I’ve found that gauge becomes a lot less important and maybe even becomes a non issue if you like the sound you’re getting. Or maybe only an issue if you have a particular playing style that primarily works on a specific gauge.

For instance - I’ve read over the years about the “thin & wiry” sound that people report with Spriro 4/4 weichs. And I know what they’re talking about: I used to play a 50s German shop bass that had a predominantly middy sound and yeah - thin & wiry - Spiros of any gauge, but particularly s42 weichs. But then my current instrument, that is darker and has more meat to the sound in general (a large 3/4, 41.75 SL), the S42s were warm, punchy, very clear - and not thin & wiry sounding in the least. So that’s when I discovered that it’s not so much about gauge, core type, etc. - but just if a particular instrument sounds and responds well with them. That and a few years of playing on them..

I been playing on Tempera hybrids for a good while now - another relatively thin gauge string that doesn’t sound and feel thin. But this thread does have me recalling my old set of weichs!

I used a well worn set of S42s with a really old 3885 weich E..

 

[garrett2]

Has anyone tried Spiro Weich solo EA and Tempera DG? I'm thinking of testing out the Spiro Weichs as the bass strings in Meyer tuning (which is really Streicher tuning).