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Double Bass SPIROCORES ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!!!!!

#781
Ryan in PDX said:
Permanent solos over Spiros (solo B, mitt E) were brighter and tighter than all Spiros (solos with mitt E) tuned AEBE? And now you're playing the same Permanent solos over Spiro solo B and mitt E, tuned GDAE - and you find the Permanents to give you better clarity?
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Yes, exactly that. This happened over the pandemic while I committed myself to tackling some Bach cello suites. I actually DID want to try to get some of that sound and I thought I might as well try the exact set up and see what I find. I think it did help me a little to at least feel what Edgar or Paul might be feeling as they play. I spoke with Paul quite a bit during this time and we discussed the set up and the challenges of playing the suites.
The biggest change is playing solo strings in solo tuning. You quickly realize some of the reasons why they get that sound when you venture into that territory. Of course, it's all in their bowing and their hands (and intellect) more than any other factor.

I am NOT a fan of Obligatos in any form. I find that they roll under the bow and generally do not feel good in my hands. If I was going that route I would probably go with Bel Cantos but I haven't played anything with a perlon core for many years. I've known Paul casually for a few years but have only really heard him play once in person. I've seen Edgar a few times but have never had the pleasure to meet him. They are both truly wizards.
 
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#782
Belcantos have a steel core.
Perlon (i.e. Sensicore) and PEEK (Obligato, EP, Zyex) have a very stretchy core. Besides a lot of string to wind onto the peg to get them in tune they have a limited dynamic response due to less tension rising when plucked/bowed than steel, gut or the Innovation string cores (which elongate with tension similar to a plain gut G string).
So if you ever want to try synthetic core strings again, I would recommend trying Innovation Braided or Polychromes for pizz and bowing.
 
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#784
Perlon-core strings stretch so they’ll never have the power of steel rope-core strings.

On adjusters, you can lubricate the threads with parrafin or change them out for wheels made from a hard, oily wood like lignum vitae. Both work well, but aluminum sounds like crap.
 
#785
Hi y'all.

I just took of my weich g to try the chorda again. The spiro was back on in under an hour...

New problem now...

I have noticed the the winding now feels rough in couple of different places. It does not really effect anything, it just does not feel silky smooth like it used to. Has anyone ever noticed this? Could it be dirt?

I noticed the same thing a few years ago with a new g string.

Lesson.... don't mess around changing strings.
 
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#786
Thomas88 said:
Hi y'all.

I just took of my weich g to try the chorda again. The spiro was back on in under an hour...

New problem now...

I have noticed the the winding now feels rough in couple of different places. It does not really effect anything, it just does not feel silky smooth like it used to. Has anyone ever noticed this? Could it be dirt?

I noticed the same thing a few years ago with a new g string.

Lesson.... don't mess around changing strings.
Click to expand...
Wipe them down with alcohol. See if that solves the problem.
 
#787
KUNGfuSHERIFF said:
Perlon-core strings stretch so they’ll never have the power of steel rope-core strings.

On adjusters, you can lubricate the threads with parrafin or change them out for wheels made from a hard, oily wood like lignum vitae. Both work well, but aluminum sounds like crap.
Click to expand...

Aren't Dominants made with perlon core? Whatever it is, Dominants are some of the loudest strings (for pizz) I've played... Re adjusters, I was under the impression that aluminum is the favourite adjuster material of many of the best luthiers...
 
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#789
bassmanbrent said:
Aren't Dominants made with perlon core? Whatever it is, Dominants are some of the loudest strings (for pizz) I've played... Re adjusters, I was under the impression that aluminum is the favourite adjuster material of many of the best luthiers...
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I did like Dominants for a bit, a very good string but still not as good as Spiros. I never took much stock in the adjuster material thing. Always had aluminum, always had great sounding basses. Re: Evahs. I could never get into those strings. They always felt choked to me.
 
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#790
bassmanbrent said:
Aren't Dominants made with perlon core? Whatever it is, Dominants are some of the loudest strings (for pizz) I've played... Re adjusters, I was under the impression that aluminum is the favourite adjuster material of many of the best luthiers...
Click to expand...

My experience with Dominants is that they are extremely loud compared to other strings (my students often comment on this as well) and also the most tuning stable strings I have ever used. I still remember the little mini tour where we went from Louisville to Philly to the Blue Note in NYC, then back home, and I didn’t have to touch the tuning pegs the entire time. Granted, there was no piano in the band, so I didn’t have to adjust to different piano tunings. Still, that kind of blew my mind.

To this day, I only have to tune them to adjust to differences in the pianos I am playing with.
 
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#791
Chris Fitzgerald said:
My experience with Dominants is that they are extremely loud compared to other strings (my students often comment on this as well) and also the most tuning stable strings I have ever used. I still remember the little mini tour where we went from Louisville to Philly to the Blue Note in NYC, then back home, and I didn’t have to touch the tuning pegs the entire time. Granted, there was no piano in the band, so I didn’t have to adjust to different piano tunings. Still, that kind of blew my mind.

To this day, I only have to tune them to adjust to differences in the pianos I am playing with.
Click to expand...

That is astounding. I have to tune my bass every half hour or so, even in the practice room. In fact I can’t ever remember picking up my bass and not having to tune it in some way!
 
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#792
Jason Sypher said:
That is astounding. I have to tune my bass every half hour or so, even in the practice room. In fact I can’t ever remember picking up my bass and not having to tune it in some way!
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I know. But I promise I’m not just running all over the place playing out of tune! The combination of the LaScala hybrid and the Dominants is just astoundingly stable. Before that combination, I was tuning constantly, even with spiros on the other basses. I’m also super OCD about humidity at this point, and the weather was mild and consistent on that trip.
 
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#793
I’m afraid of Dominants because of the breakage issues, so I haven’t tried them. But every perlon string I’ve tried has a hard dynamic ceiling. My attack can be pretty intense.

Having had aluminum adjusters installed in a formerly straight bridge, I can hear an audible and displeasing difference. Wood adjusters sound much less peaky to my ear.
 
#794
I was not precise enough.
I meant multifiber Nylon/Perlon or PEEK with a constant core diameter for all strings of the set.

The constant core diameter it typical for all (metal) wound strings, except gut core and maybe mono fiber core (but at least Honeys have a uniform monofiber synthetic core diameter).

One of the keys is of course the diameter of the (synthetic) core. The larger the core diameter, the less stretching. But my experience with Sensicore, Obligato (high C only, maybe not representative) and Evah Pirazzi Weich showed a large stretch.

I posted some measurements of G (or D?) strings how much string passes over the nut when tuned down by a minor third to normal pitch here on Talkbass for those who are interested.
But everyone of you can make that kind of measurement themselves.

Personally, I never had a Dominant, but some monofiber plain nylon that I used as a G string for a while. But that was decades ago when I was at school …

I talked to one of the string designers/manufacturers at Thomastik about Dominants and the problem is that the metal flatware winding cuts into the monofiber nylon. That cut on the surface weakens the nylon core a lot, so that it breaks. They tried a lot of things to avoid that, but even a layer of silk gets cut through before it cuts into the nylon again. Most worse with a bent string.

And that problem (and a missing high C) ruled the Dominants out for my personal use.
 
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#795
Chris Fitzgerald said:
I know. But I promise I’m not just running all over the place playing out of tune! The combination of the LaScala hybrid and the Dominants is just astoundingly stable. Before that combination, I was tuning constantly, even with spiros on the other basses. I’m also super OCD about humidity at this point, and the weather was mild and consistent on that trip.
Click to expand...

Hahaha. Ever since I moved to Japan I realize that I have been running all over the place playing out of tune! LOL! Their demands here for intonation are like nothing I ever experienced before. And not just playing flat or sharp, no, I mean tempered tuning as in playing a C a little sharp in an E minor chord etc etc. I have come across these types of things in some classical lessons etc but never so much "on the stand". Anyways, that's an incredible story with the tuning. My bass changes pretty radically with temperature and humidity, it's not so much the strings, I can actually feel the difference in the string height even between soundcheck and the gig.
 
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