S42W will feel lower tension on a 3/4 size bass. Also 3885W may not fit on a 4/4 size bass.
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Double Bass SPIROCORES ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Jason Sypher
- Start date
They are noticeably different. I'm currently using the 3885s and enjoy them quite a bit. The S42s are really thin and fretless bass guitar-y to me. I don't enjoy them at all in comparison. S42 Mittels would be my preference if my bass liked them better. You may have to try a few sets to find what is best for you and your bass. For me and mine, it's 3885 Weichs at the moment.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
I had Velvet Compass 180s on my 1940 Kay and honestly thought they might be wasted on that bass. They sounded and felt great but I had a gig last weekend where I couldn’t hear well so my mind wandered. That broken in set of S42 Weichs went on and immediately sounded great. Spirocores don’t always work, but when they do it’s like checking something off the To Do list. Done for a few years anyway.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
To clarify, yes I was paying attention, didn’t get lost and miss the bridge on any tunes. Toward the end of that I decided to try the spirocores. If I can pick the right bass and amp for a particular room most of the time, I’m doing well. Then there’s the piano player with a strong left hand, the loud couple at table one,…….and drummers.
‘Nothing works all the time”. This is a casual kernel of great truth.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
Friday gig was in the worst acoustic space I’ve been in; Union Station which is the largest train station in the US other than Grand Central in NY, I believe. One BIG granite surface which echos for days and I don’t generally enjoy playing there. The sound guy was great and keeping the volume low made it a great night. Easy gig yesterday in a normal club and a bass player in the room told me the sound was dark. The drummer loved it though.
Church gig this morning with beautiful acoustics and I bowed the whole thing with ease. I normally use the Rodier but the Kay was in the van, so I why not?
I got unsolicited compliments on the bass sound from musicians on all three gigs which reinforced my belief that A Kay with Spirocores that covers most situations makes life a lot easier. Life isGood!
Church gig this morning with beautiful acoustics and I bowed the whole thing with ease. I normally use the Rodier but the Kay was in the van, so I why not?
I got unsolicited compliments on the bass sound from musicians on all three gigs which reinforced my belief that A Kay with Spirocores that covers most situations makes life a lot easier. Life isGood!
For those who need a backup set or want to try some broken-in Mittels, there's a set available in the classifieds.
I have no affiliation with the seller, I just love a bargain!
I have no affiliation with the seller, I just love a bargain!
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Progris riport: After a couple of months with 4/4 mittels I got frustrated with searching for balance between perceived tension and string height, what was good for the left hand was too much for right hand and vice versa. I had a two day stint with Gamut Pistoys on top of 4/4 Spiro solos but no, not going back there anymore. I play a lot with my wife nowadays, violin / bass duets, exercises and harmonies in a band we're both in, lots of arco from my part. She missed the clarity and tone immediately, I felt like beeing in trouble all the time.
I pluck the strings similar way than say, John Goldsby or Esperanza Spalding does, meaning that I maintain an angle on my arm and pluck a couple of inches up from the end of the fingerboard as my default setting. When I move higher on the board I maintain similar angle, but the plucking spot moves towards the end of the board as I move my torso ( and the bass ). For this reason I need certain string height to get enough room between the string and the board. I' m aiming more at thump than contemporary jazz pizz tone, this way I get more pronounced low end to the tone with a good percussive front pop of the note, instead of midrange-y jazz pizz tone. For all of this mittels were too much of hard work for the left hand, loved the arco though!
Yesterday I walked to the local brick and mortar and bought a set of nice fresh 4/4 Spiro weichs. It's everything I needed and wished for straight out of sleeves. Loud! I've become a true believer. It will be great after a couple of months.
So far I've found everything that Jason Sypher have said here true. Spiros are not your drivers seat string, it's the playing in an ensemble string. Best arco string I've encountered, great noble horn- like fundamental tone. Absolute no BS in every way, they do what your hands do. Clarity like no other.
Will report back in couple of months.
I pluck the strings similar way than say, John Goldsby or Esperanza Spalding does, meaning that I maintain an angle on my arm and pluck a couple of inches up from the end of the fingerboard as my default setting. When I move higher on the board I maintain similar angle, but the plucking spot moves towards the end of the board as I move my torso ( and the bass ). For this reason I need certain string height to get enough room between the string and the board. I' m aiming more at thump than contemporary jazz pizz tone, this way I get more pronounced low end to the tone with a good percussive front pop of the note, instead of midrange-y jazz pizz tone. For all of this mittels were too much of hard work for the left hand, loved the arco though!
Yesterday I walked to the local brick and mortar and bought a set of nice fresh 4/4 Spiro weichs. It's everything I needed and wished for straight out of sleeves. Loud! I've become a true believer. It will be great after a couple of months.
So far I've found everything that Jason Sypher have said here true. Spiros are not your drivers seat string, it's the playing in an ensemble string. Best arco string I've encountered, great noble horn- like fundamental tone. Absolute no BS in every way, they do what your hands do. Clarity like no other.
Will report back in couple of months.
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just idly scrolling through and wanted to point out this is not why. A shorter string at the same pitch will be less tense. However, tilting the bridge upward raises the action. This effect dominates and so it does indeed cause a tenser feel when playing.
end of progris riport
Arco: There's nothing better for my non-orchestral needs than a full set of either Spiro mittels or weichs.
Pizz: For overall clarity of tone and intonation in the mix of an ensemble I've found nothing to be better than either a full set of Spiro mittels or weichs.
After a couple of months I found and decided that I need non-steel core strings for the G and D. With a full set of Spiros I'll allways have a perceived tension / feel problem that leads to either left or right hand discomfort, and a right shoulder issue that gets worse when the pizz feel ain't what my muscle memory and ear is expecting.
I use my hands and body a lot in what I earn my income from and it can be pretty physical at times. Part of all that is a varying exercise routine, which I do to keep myself going and improving, and for knowing my s**t in my massage therapy practise. I might come to the rehearsing room after a bike ride / pull up session, four hours of heavy household work and two massage customers, pretty worn out 46 year old so to speak. I need a bass that sounds big acousticly without wrestling.
I've basically learned the DB with at least the G beeing a plain gut string and arco tone and playability was what drove me to Evah weichs and medium action some 2-3 years ago. It started a learning curve that initially drove me to try a full set of Spiros, which I sort of had a love / hate relationship with, coming from guts and high action. Now I know that Spiros sound the way the driver makes them to sound, if the driver and the vehicle is able to deliver.
However, in my limited system of everything, be that the strenght and motivation that I have for each day, or the time I have to divide between two main instruments, the DB and the drums, a full set of Spiros of any gauge represents too many obstacles and compromises between tone and playability. I have described the playability issues earlier in this thread, so I wont write about them here anymore.
I've been fussing with mixing 4/4 Spiro weichs and Evah weichs for the past two weeks or so. I ended up with Spiro EA Evah DG / higher medium action beeing the best compromise between all the variables involved. For arco I much prefer the Evah G only, but the ultimate pizz feel and tone I get from 2 / 2 mix. A happy side product is that I need to be replacing only the two fragile higher strings, while the two low strings will eventually only get better and better.
I'm not complaining, the 4/4 Spiro w / Evah w set feels, plays and sounds incredible on my bass. It can take a higher action with ease too. Propably pretty close to Spiro / Oliv mix in general, the guts with Spiros type of thing. This is a great alternative if all Spiros or Spiro / gut mix is too much for you for any reason.
It has been a very intensive and interesting trial perioid, and I have learned a lot. Many have described how there really are only two types of DB strings, Spiros and gut. I've found that to be true, and I' ve found everything that the incredible DB players and masters have said here true. Many thanks for the shared experience and wisdom!
Reiska
Arco: There's nothing better for my non-orchestral needs than a full set of either Spiro mittels or weichs.
Pizz: For overall clarity of tone and intonation in the mix of an ensemble I've found nothing to be better than either a full set of Spiro mittels or weichs.
After a couple of months I found and decided that I need non-steel core strings for the G and D. With a full set of Spiros I'll allways have a perceived tension / feel problem that leads to either left or right hand discomfort, and a right shoulder issue that gets worse when the pizz feel ain't what my muscle memory and ear is expecting.
I use my hands and body a lot in what I earn my income from and it can be pretty physical at times. Part of all that is a varying exercise routine, which I do to keep myself going and improving, and for knowing my s**t in my massage therapy practise. I might come to the rehearsing room after a bike ride / pull up session, four hours of heavy household work and two massage customers, pretty worn out 46 year old so to speak. I need a bass that sounds big acousticly without wrestling.
I've basically learned the DB with at least the G beeing a plain gut string and arco tone and playability was what drove me to Evah weichs and medium action some 2-3 years ago. It started a learning curve that initially drove me to try a full set of Spiros, which I sort of had a love / hate relationship with, coming from guts and high action. Now I know that Spiros sound the way the driver makes them to sound, if the driver and the vehicle is able to deliver.
However, in my limited system of everything, be that the strenght and motivation that I have for each day, or the time I have to divide between two main instruments, the DB and the drums, a full set of Spiros of any gauge represents too many obstacles and compromises between tone and playability. I have described the playability issues earlier in this thread, so I wont write about them here anymore.
I've been fussing with mixing 4/4 Spiro weichs and Evah weichs for the past two weeks or so. I ended up with Spiro EA Evah DG / higher medium action beeing the best compromise between all the variables involved. For arco I much prefer the Evah G only, but the ultimate pizz feel and tone I get from 2 / 2 mix. A happy side product is that I need to be replacing only the two fragile higher strings, while the two low strings will eventually only get better and better.
I'm not complaining, the 4/4 Spiro w / Evah w set feels, plays and sounds incredible on my bass. It can take a higher action with ease too. Propably pretty close to Spiro / Oliv mix in general, the guts with Spiros type of thing. This is a great alternative if all Spiros or Spiro / gut mix is too much for you for any reason.
It has been a very intensive and interesting trial perioid, and I have learned a lot. Many have described how there really are only two types of DB strings, Spiros and gut. I've found that to be true, and I' ve found everything that the incredible DB players and masters have said here true. Many thanks for the shared experience and wisdom!
Reiska
These are such great observations. I’m loving the sound & power of the Sweich 3885s on my upton …. as compared to the older 4/4 Sweichs I had on for several years.
And although arco isn’t a priority for me, I’m feeling the need to try a slightly softer G&D over the 3885 A&E. Might swap out the G&D with some perps after the holidays and see how it feels / sounds.
Many thanks, Jason. In a way I think that ignorance is bliss when it comes to string talk, but let us know how it goes if you end up experimenting!
Reiska: I've been playing the 4/4 weichs with a higher string height lately, but with a polychrome G. Its a fantastic set that I don't have to kill myself to play. Gig'd a smaller, great listening room in Vancouver last night with this setup and was in total bliss. String height is about 6/7-9/10mm. Arco on that polychrome is amazing!
I did also try the Poly D under spiros, I found the tension too high and didn't match the rest of the set. I find the poly G very light in tension, but the gauge is about the same as the spiro weich D, so its very comfortable for both hands.
Its been many years since I've tried Evah weichs but I may want to revisit them sometime next year if I want a mellower D string sound. My E and A spiro weichs are staying the course, no more messing around with those.
Brad, I've been interested in trying polychromes one day, as they seem to fit the bill for someone who wants gut qualities in non-gut outfit. Evah weichs work for me just fine though, and they can be found from local brick and mortar, unlike Polychromes. I'm sporting 7 - 10mm -ish action on a big italian style carved bass, 105,5cm string lenght. The Spiro w/ Evah w set feels great on my bass. Thanks for letting me know!
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Do Spiros continue to get darker over time even after you’ve had them on for a while and played through that initial “new string” period?
I just hit the one-year mark with my first set, the 3/4 lights. I am loving the clarity, dynamic response and articulation—it’s really helping me improve my intonation and control. But I’m wondering if they will continue to darken over time or if this is it.
On my bass they really mellowed out in the first 1-3 months, but since then I’m mainly adjusting how I am playing them (aka working on my technique…) as opposed to the strings themselves changing, if that makes sense.
I just hit the one-year mark with my first set, the 3/4 lights. I am loving the clarity, dynamic response and articulation—it’s really helping me improve my intonation and control. But I’m wondering if they will continue to darken over time or if this is it.
On my bass they really mellowed out in the first 1-3 months, but since then I’m mainly adjusting how I am playing them (aka working on my technique…) as opposed to the strings themselves changing, if that makes sense.
Thanks Chris—I have read that skin chemistry plays a big role in how quickly or to what extent they go dead.
I actually do want a little less brightness, which is why I was curious if they continue to develop a darker sound over time or if they reach a steady state. I will probably not clean them too often based on your comment.
I feel like I could use the Weichs in almost any situation except orchestral section playing where I might feel a little self conscious of the brightness. Even then it’s not like I am auditioning for the NY Phil or anything… I might be able to get away with it. But I wouldn’t mind a little more fundamental or less prominent overtones.
Either way, one year in I am a big Spiro fan. It feels like a new level of dynamic range is possible compared to the synthetic core strings I had on before and a lot more clarity over the whole range of the instrument.
Don’t forget that that bright sound is what the player hears. The radiated sound towards the listeners is much darker.
Make a recording in a larger room at ten meters distance, it won’t sound as bad as you think.
OTOH, if you cannot live with the raspy bowing sound in your (!) ear, even if it sounds good to the listeners, then you need to change. But then it is you, not the sound of the instrument/strings.
Make a recording in a larger room at ten meters distance, it won’t sound as bad as you think.
OTOH, if you cannot live with the raspy bowing sound in your (!) ear, even if it sounds good to the listeners, then you need to change. But then it is you, not the sound of the instrument/strings.
