Double Bass SPIROCORES ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!!!!!

[Reiska]

That brightness in the arco tone comes out as clarity in the mix IME.

End of progris riport continued

Spiro 42w EAD Evah weich G on my bass now. The Evah is difficult under the bow, hard to start, hear and scratchy compared to Spiros. Toying with the idea of Oliv G. Sigh.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

That brightness in the arco tone comes out as clarity in the mix IME.

End of progris riport continued

Spiro 42w EAD Evah weich G on my bass now. The Evah is difficult under the bow, hard to start, hear and scratchy compared to Spiros. Toying with the idea of Oliv G. Sigh.

Try an Innovation Polychrome or Braided G if you can get one. Maybe moving the soundpost (more away from the bridge foot) helps for an easier start of the G.

 

[Reiska]

" Which are everything you hate in a string until you play them with other people " -KfS

**** it, end of progris riport continued, full set of 4/4 weichs back on the bass

Evah weich / Spiro mix feels great and pizz sounds nice to the drivers seat, but arco on the Evah G is a miserable wolf city, and listening to rehearsal recordings the pizz sounds like I was playing two basses simultaneously, another one on stage and another behind the curtain.

Gotta give the full set another go.

 

[ericsmith]

@Reiska I’ll dare you to keep the full set ATLEAST until 2022 !!

 

[Reiska]

@Reiska I’ll dare you to keep the full set ATLEAST until 2022 !!

I`ll try my best, sensei!!!

 

[TroyK]

There is no try, only do!

 

[Jason Sypher]

Reiska. Not to open a can of worms but the more I read over your posts the more I wonder if your set up is wonky. Have you experimented with soundpost placement? I know, I know...it can be very lonely when you feel your bass is fighting you. I have to say that I often pick up another players bass to try and glance through the f-hole to find the post in a terrible position. Since I had a neck conversion and a full tutorial by Mike Shank on post placement and it's effect I have become a bit of a soundpost ninja. I am rocking an odd set of strings for a while now, basically Edgar Meyer's recipe given to my by my friend Paul Kowert. Spiro mittel E, Spiro solo A, Permanent solo E and A detuned to D and G respectively. I find it is almost perfect for me as I am playing a lot of bow in very small acoustic trios. It also allows me the option of solo tuning. That said, I would easily put back on my whole set of Spiro Mittels if necessary. I have also experimented quite a bit with string height and mensure (cheating my bridge up a bit to shorten the string length). I am looking for a height that I can bow complicated pieces with some consistency but still have some power in my pizz while still being able to get under the string for some slap occasionally....a very tall order. But with patience I am finding a balance. Nothing is perfect for everything, I simply have to many disparate demands on the bass. But I would advise putting on a whole set of spiros and working from there. The string game is so expensive and the spiros are such an excellent all arounder and a fine consistent place to work from. Think a little bit about your set up if you havent already. Mike Shank swapped out a few bridges, moved my soundpost around and each time my bass was RADICALLY different feeling and sounding. In general a narrower bridge brings more clarity and mid focus while a wider stance on a bridge brings more bass thud. A post closer to the bridge brings more stridency and a quicker response though requires a little more weighing into the strings to make them work, while a post further away from the bridge gives breadth and warmth but is not as quick to respond. Pardon if this is coming across as mansplaining or too pedestrian.

 

[TroyK]

I'm throwing down the gauntlet for you "so much fun" folks. Time to put up or shut up!

2022 Spirocore Challenge

 

[Reiska]

Reiska. Not to open a can of worms but the more I read over your posts the more I wonder if your set up is wonky. Have you experimented with soundpost placement? I know, I know...it can be very lonely when you feel your bass is fighting you. I have to say that I often pick up another players bass to try and glance through the f-hole to find the post in a terrible position. Since I had a neck conversion and a full tutorial by Mike Shank on post placement and it's effect I have become a bit of a soundpost ninja. I am rocking an odd set of strings for a while now, basically Edgar Meyer's recipe given to my by my friend Paul Kowert. Spiro mittel E, Spiro solo A, Permanent solo E and A detuned to D and G respectively. I find it is almost perfect for me as I am playing a lot of bow in very small acoustic trios. It also allows me the option of solo tuning. That said, I would easily put back on my whole set of Spiro Mittels if necessary. I have also experimented quite a bit with string height and mensure (cheating my bridge up a bit to shorten the string length). I am looking for a height that I can bow complicated pieces with some consistency but still have some power in my pizz while still being able to get under the string for some slap occasionally....a very tall order. But with patience I am finding a balance. Nothing is perfect for everything, I simply have to many disparate demands on the bass. But I would advise putting on a whole set of spiros and working from there. The string game is so expensive and the spiros are such an excellent all arounder and a fine consistent place to work from. Think a little bit about your set up if you havent already. Mike Shank swapped out a few bridges, moved my soundpost around and each time my bass was RADICALLY different feeling and sounding. In general a narrower bridge brings more clarity and mid focus while a wider stance on a bridge brings more bass thud. A post closer to the bridge brings more stridency and a quicker response though requires a little more weighing into the strings to make them work, while a post further away from the bridge gives breadth and warmth but is not as quick to respond. Pardon if this is coming across as mansplaining or too pedestrian.

Thank you for the advise and insight, Jason. You're very right about the luthier aspect, and another issue is that weather has been pretty extreme here for past two weeks as a arctic breeze from Siberia hit Finland. Two old and repaired cracks and one seam opened up as temperatures went down and air dried to extremes. The bass is a mess, and in the need of a new bridge too. Unfortunately, I'm running on fumes financially atm, and I have to wait a bit to get the bass checked out and worked healthy. Temperatures are going up now, and so I have my fingers crossed about the cracks not spreading more.

I take the advise of sticking with Spirocores to the heart, and will get into fine tuning the setup when the situation allows. Some stuff I can do on my own, bridge and nut shaping and string height / tailpiece lenght issues, but anything about soundpost placement or fingerboard shaping is way beyond my pay grade. I've thought about getting into soundpost zen, but will need the tools along with serious study on the issue, obviously. This would be a long run goal.

My needs from the bass are similar to yours in that way that arco has become more and more important, along with the musical reality beeing similar, I play mostly folk music and stuff that could loosely be described as americana. Most of my playing and even most of the gigs are fully acoustic, and so I need a bass and setup that is able to deliver, while still beeing manageable. I dont slap, but pizz and arco are about 50 / 50 in my musical reality.

However, when that Spiro w G string went back on, the bowability factor came up accordingly, no more wolfy woolly mess. As I wrote earlier on the thread, Spiros are The Arco String for me and my bass.

 

[Inky13]

Reiska. Not to open a can of worms but the more I read over your posts the more I wonder if your set up is wonky. Have you experimented with soundpost placement? I know, I know...it can be very lonely when you feel your bass is fighting you. I have to say that I often pick up another players bass to try and glance through the f-hole to find the post in a terrible position. Since I had a neck conversion and a full tutorial by Mike Shank on post placement and it's effect I have become a bit of a soundpost ninja. I am rocking an odd set of strings for a while now, basically Edgar Meyer's recipe given to my by my friend Paul Kowert. Spiro mittel E, Spiro solo A, Permanent solo E and A detuned to D and G respectively. I find it is almost perfect for me as I am playing a lot of bow in very small acoustic trios. It also allows me the option of solo tuning. That said, I would easily put back on my whole set of Spiro Mittels if necessary. I have also experimented quite a bit with string height and mensure (cheating my bridge up a bit to shorten the string length). I am looking for a height that I can bow complicated pieces with some consistency but still have some power in my pizz while still being able to get under the string for some slap occasionally....a very tall order. But with patience I am finding a balance. Nothing is perfect for everything, I simply have to many disparate demands on the bass. But I would advise putting on a whole set of spiros and working from there. The string game is so expensive and the spiros are such an excellent all arounder and a fine consistent place to work from. Think a little bit about your set up if you havent already. Mike Shank swapped out a few bridges, moved my soundpost around and each time my bass was RADICALLY different feeling and sounding. In general a narrower bridge brings more clarity and mid focus while a wider stance on a bridge brings more bass thud. A post closer to the bridge brings more stridency and a quicker response though requires a little more weighing into the strings to make them work, while a post further away from the bridge gives breadth and warmth but is not as quick to respond. Pardon if this is coming across as mansplaining or too pedestrian.

Very informative. The post on my new to me bass is much farther away than I’ve ever seen. It’s set up for arco and seems to play well so far.

 

[Jason Sypher]

Thank you for the advise and insight, Jason. You're very right about the luthier aspect, and another issue is that weather has been pretty extreme here for past two weeks as a arctic breeze from Siberia hit Finland. Two old and repaired cracks and one seam opened up as temperatures went down and air dried to extremes. The bass is a mess, and in the need of a new bridge too. Unfortunately, I'm running on fumes financially atm, and I have to wait a bit to get the bass checked out and worked healthy. Temperatures are going up now, and so I have my fingers crossed about the cracks not spreading more.

I take the advise of sticking with Spirocores to the heart, and will get into fine tuning the setup when the situation allows. Some stuff I can do on my own, bridge and nut shaping and string height / tailpiece lenght issues, but anything about soundpost placement or fingerboard shaping is way beyond my pay grade. I've thought about getting into soundpost zen, but will need the tools along with serious study on the issue, obviously. This would be a long run goal.

My needs from the bass are similar to yours in that way that arco has become more and more important, along with the musical reality beeing similar, I play mostly folk music and stuff that could loosely be described as americana. Most of my playing and even most of the gigs are fully acoustic, and so I need a bass and setup that is able to deliver, while still beeing manageable. I dont slap, but pizz and arco are about 50 / 50 in my musical reality.

However, when that Spiro w G string went back on, the bowability factor came up accordingly, no more wolfy woolly mess. As I wrote earlier on the thread, Spiros are The Arco String for me and my bass.

Sounds like you are managing your expectations alright. As we all know but sometimes forget, the bass is a whole organism and all the parts and systems need to work in harmony. Every part interacts with the others and weaknesses show up in playability and sound. Try to get it collectively balanced and then just focus on fixes with technique…

 

[Reiska]

Thanks again, Jason. As I wrote, I will stick with Spiro weichs and get into nuances of the setup when the finances and schedules allow. The technique thing, that's the fascinating part, and the reason I like these strings so much. All of it is so completely in the hands, be that pizz or arco tone. There's this honesty aspect of it, they carry all the sounds and colours, it's up to me if I can dig it out of the bass. It allways strikes me how masters like you are able to produce the needed tonal quality from that multi-dimensional pallette.

Took the strings down a quarter turn and now the bass plays effortlesly. There seems to be this certain point in string height after which there starts to be more bass than string in the pizz tone, a sweet spot so to speak. The action is a little under 7 - 10mm now and it does what I'm after pretty well. I'm playing a acoustic trio gig on friday on the stage of a club room, that would be the last reality check for this setup. I assume it's gonna be good though, we rehearse on that same stage, just add the more of less drunken audience to the equation on friday.

 

[Jason Sypher]

Thank you but I am no master! I spent 30 minutes today exploring the intonation of C and B. The singer definitely felt more in tune if I was just slightly sharp on the C. The song is in E minor. Everything is in the details and I learn that more and more every day, every tune, every gig. Keep searching. A quarter turn? Yes, sometimes that is the difference between a string fighting you to start or just giving in to motion. You are a smart player. Just keep tweaking. And yes, I agree with the whole honesty bit. Spiros are enough, they are enough for any of us. They can be a dose of truth serum. Sometimes it is bitter but it is very revealing in the end. Of course, some set ups just won't take to them, there is truth in that as well. I mean, I've got two Permanents on the bass right now. But mostly because I wanted to feel what Paul Kowert was telling me about. Not really to save my playing or change my life. Spiros are there, waiting, whenever someone finally gets sick of looking at their strings and blaming them for their mistakes. Be well and good luck. Keep posting. I love this stuff.

 

[Reiska]

Thanks again for the insight, and the music. Be well and healthy, keep it coming!!!

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

^^^^ Last couple of posts by @Reiska and @Jason Sypher are pure gold. Especially about the sweet spot and the honesty factor of Spiros… which Dominants definitely share.

About the sweet spot: It’s winter now, and my strings are a little lower than usual as a result. I played a gig last night thinking I might want to raise them on the break if things didn’t feel right, but everything was fine. It feels like driving a sports car right now. I may wish for the more Humvee-like feel of the higher setup on the big band hit tonight, but I could also be surprised and just adjust with technique. Live and learn!

 

[Sam Reese]

The luthier, Mike Magee whole-heartedly encourages me to use the string height adjusters regularly. Before his work on my basses, I was scared to turn them. Now I crank 'em up and down quite often and can really hear and feel many different nuances.
I know it can be said for many kinds of strings, but my current journey is with Spiro Mitts on both basses (with the exception of a Stark G that is on its way from Gollihur's right now). What I've learned this year regarding pizzicato on the Thomastik-Infeld SpiroCores is that the fundamental is very special in these strings, especially when I'm plucking with much hand strength. I never practice at the hand strength that I play in gigs because the adrenalin I get from a live audience can't be mustered "practicing". The fundamental is solid and takes up space.

 

[Jason Sypher]

The luthier, Mike Magee whole-heartedly encourages me to use the string height adjusters regularly. Before his work on my basses, I was scared to turn them. Now I crank 'em up and down quite often and can really hear and feel many different nuances.
I know it can be said for many kinds of strings, but my current journey is with Spiro Mitts on both basses (with the exception of a Stark G that is on its way from Gollihur's right now). What I've learned this year regarding pizzicato on the Thomastik-Infeld SpiroCores is that the fundamental is very special in these strings, especially when I'm plucking with much hand strength. I never practice at the hand strength that I play in gigs because the adrenalin I get from a live audience can't be mustered "practicing". The fundamental is solid and takes up space.

I turn them all the time, sometimes every few days as the temperature and humidity shifts. I've even put difficult bowing features at the end of sets and turned them down to facilitate thumb position fingerings. There are times when that little alteration can make all the difference.

 

[coldtrain]

But mostly because I wanted to feel what Paul Kowert was telling me about.

Jason, can you expand on this?

 

[Jason Sypher]

Jason, can you expand on this?

I told him I was using a standard E with Spiro solos on the B, E, and A strings and he said "you gotta try the Permanents on top, their brighter and a little tighter so you can dig in more when you need to"..."they will seem bright at first but once they settle you will know what I mean". I did what he said and took them off for a few days only to go right back to them. I realized that the tighter string helped me lower the string height a little bit while still giving me lots of room to work dynamics. I've stuck to them ever since though now I am playing them detuned (but in 442). The groups I'm playing with in Japan all tune 442. They're not quite as robust sounding with pizz but I like their clarity in the trade-off.

 

[Ryan in PDX]

I told him I was using a standard E with Spiro solos on the B, E, and A strings and he said "you gotta try the Perpetuals on top, their brighter and a little tighter so you can dig in more when you need to"..."they will seem bright at first but once they settle you will know what I mean". I did what he said and took them off for a few days only to go right back to them. I realized that the tighter string helped me lower the string height a little bit while still giving me lots of room to work dynamics. I've stuck to them ever since though now I am playing them detuned (but in 442). The groups I'm playing with in Japan all tune 442. They're not quite as robust sounding with pizz but I like their clarity in the trade-off.

Thank you for expanding on this! I'll be greedy and ask you to clarify a little more. Permanent solos over Spiros (solo B, mitt E) were brighter and tighter than all Spiros (solos with mitt E) tuned AEBE? And now you're playing the same Permanent solos over Spiro solo B and mitt E, tuned GDAE - and you find the Permanents to give you better clarity?

I'm currently playing Obligatos over Spiro mitts in standard tuning, and the Obligatos feel and sound a bit underpowered compared to the Spiros. I think I'm ready to try the full set of Spiros, but as a big Kowert/Meyer fanboi, I've been curious about that string selection. I have no interest in their tuning - which I assumed was part of the string choice - at this point, and I'm not trying to cop their sounds, but it's fascinating to hear about it from someone close to the source. I have a student-grade ply bass, and decidedly student-grade technique, so perhaps I'd be best off just mounting the Spiro G&D, and not worrying about strings for a few years.

I am fortunate to have seen Edgar on the Goat Rodeo tour this summer, and Paul on the Punch Brothers "All Ashore" tour in '19. They both sounded fantastic, and at neither show did I have a single thought about strings... But that's why we have the internet, isn't it? Looking forward to seeing the Punch Bros again in January.