Double Bass Spirocores... dammit

[Jason Hollar]

You could try the S42 W on G D A and add 385 W on the E. A combination, I am using on one of mine. This gives you some relief but with some of the power with the bigger E.

This is what I’m currently using on my 41 & 5/8” scale.

 

[what the pluck]

Ok, so I tried Temperas Hybrids because I need a low tension string thats comfortable in TP (and everywhere else) due to an injury. They feel amazing, sound great arco but didn't work out Pizz on my old (well set up and maintained by Matthew Tucker - my bass has the old man set up) 3/4 french bass, particularly in the low positions.. which is a shame because apart from that they are a really nice string… anyway, theres a whole thread on that somewhere else if your interested… I previously used Spiro 3335 weich which I liked but found them a bit stiff especially in TP and not super comfortable.. I want to go back to Spiros to set and forget…. I am unsure which is the best option for my needs and don't want to remortgage my house for another string experiment… I am leaning towards the 3666 - 3/4 Solos tuned to Orchestra as according to Troys chart that looks to be close to the Temperas… There is also the 4/4 solos but perhaps tuned to orchestra they will feel too loose… and then there’s the S42 (4/4) weich which is the highest tension of the three options I am considering. I dont really want to mix spiro sets initially. I may swap out the g at some point (maybe even with the tempera)… but for now hoping to get some ideas from anyone who has tried any of the three options above on a 3/4 bass tuned to orchestra 50/50 Pizz arco … how do they feel? I like to get the string to do the talking and don't really dig in too much … I'm aware that the spiros need time to settle a bit.. I prefer a darker sound and want to be able to hear the fundamental (i know a lot of this is bass specific but am keen to hear people experiences)… I play a diverse range of music in different settings… amplified and acoustically...Thanks in advance for any insight… I just want a forever string! Something I can grow old(er) with...

 

[basss]

The 3/4 spiro solos were not much softer than weichs on my bass. The 4/4 SF solos tuned down do feel much softer, in a good way. They take some adjustment but it's not that big a deal, you have to be more precise with technique. They are easy to play in thumb position, have a beautiful clear sound, not as 'thick' sounding as orch guage. If you are dealing with an injury the 4/4 solos might be the way to go.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

S42 Mitts with a different G are about as good as it gets after at least a year of use. I’ve tried just about everything else and always come back to these.

 

[what the pluck]

S42 Mitts with a different G are about as good as it gets after at least a year of use. I’ve tried just about everything else and always come back to these.

How would the Weich S42 compare to Weich 3335 (and even both solo sets) in terms of tension/ softness, particularly in TP on your bass?

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

S42 Weichs have less tension and are slightly thinner than the 3885 Weich, and they don’t bow as well. The setup has a lot to do with choosing appropriate strings but I don’t generally like the S42 Weich because it lacks the power of its bigger brethren.

 

[what the pluck]

S42 Weichs have less tension and are slightly thinner than the 3885 Weich, and they don’t bow as well. The setup has a lot to do with choosing appropriate strings but I don’t generally like the S42 Weich because it lacks the power of its bigger brethren.

Yeah, if i wasn’t after a low tension/ soft feel string the S42 mitts would most probably be on my bass right now but looking at the tension chart they are higher then the 3885 weich … but I know that doesnt always translate to the actual feel… I know all this is bass specfific but how would you compare them to the the 3885 weich in terms of feel… i mean its obvious you prefer them so maybe a silly question! My end goal is something that is easy in TP… My Set up is good (at least for the low tension temps).. i found the 3885 weich to be uncomfortable in TP, so given the S42 Mitt has higher tension then the 3885W on a 3/4 bass i'm just assuming they would be stiffer up in TP?

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Yeah, if i wasn’t after a low tension/ soft feel string the S42 mitts would most probably be on my bass right now but looking at the tension chart they are higher then the 3885 weich … but I know that doesnt always translate to the actual feel… I know all this is bass specfific but how would you compare them to the the 3885 weich in terms of feel… i mean its obvious you prefer them so maybe a silly question! My end goal is something that is easy in TP… My Set up is good (at least for the low tension temps).. i found the 3885 weich to be uncomfortable in TP, so given the S42 Mitt has higher tension then the 3885W on a 3/4 bass i'm just assuming they would be stiffer up in TP?

If you found the 3885s to be uncomfortable in TP it might be your setup; very minimal fingerboard scoop, strings low at the nut and no more than 5mm G and 9mm E at the end of the board. Generally, a setup like this will result in an easy playing bass.
Of course, S42 Weichs are the lowest tension Spirocores other than solos. Setup is more important than string choice.

 

[jmpiwonka]

My end goal is something that is easy in TP… My Set up is good (at least for the low tensio.. i found the 3885 weich to be uncomfortable in TP, so given the S42 Mitt has higher tension then the 3885W on a 3/4 bass i'm just assuming they would be stiffer up in TP?

Sounds like 4/4 weich would work if you have a shorter string length.

Did you say what yr string length is?

The 4/4 strings are rated tension at something like 42.7”, if you are around 41” then they will be a few kp less tension and should feel softer than the 3885 weich.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Tune your existing strings down so that it feels good in thump position.
Notate how much you tuned down.
Visit my Dropbox (link in string sticky) and use the string tension data (excel file) and formulas (self-calculating) to find how much the tension dropped.
(You can use cents (100 cents = one tempered halftone) behind the decimal point (1,50 = one halftone and 50 cents). Plus is tuned up, minus tuned down.
Find strings in the excel file that are in the range of the dropped tension.
It is less complicated than you think.

The simple solution (without guarantee you will like it) is get Perpetuals.

 

[what the pluck]

If you found the 3885s to be uncomfortable in TP it might be your setup; very minimal fingerboard scoop, strings low at the nut and no more than 5mm G and 9mm E at the end of the board. Generally, a setup like this will result in an easy playing bass.
Of course, S42 Weichs are the lowest tension Spirocores other than solos. Setup is more important than string choice.

yeah…my set up has changed since the the 3885s to a low set up like you mentioned above.. Matthew spent quite a bit of time getting it low and comfortable, its pretty much exaclty what you mentioned. I guess I just have to bite the bullet and make a choice on a starting point string.

 

[basss]

Both the 3885 and 3886 solos have a taut feel compared to the S42's which have more give under the fingers. I liked both the 3/4 gauges for bowing but not for jazz pizz. I was actually surprised at how tight the 3/4 solos were on my bass. Not that they were high tension but the 4/4 solos are a lot softer feeling.

I've never really had a problem with tension under my left hand. For me as a jazz player the right hand feel when I pluck is important. I love the feel of guts under my right hand and the solos are close. I'm using Zyex lights now which have a soft feel but meatier sound.

If your left hand is giving you trouble in thumb postition I agree with George Clinkinbread that a lower action will do more than low tension strings but I think solos will help.

 

[what the pluck]

Sounds like 4/4 weich would work if you have a shorter string length.

Did you say what yr string length is?

The 4/4 strings are rated tension at something like 42.7”, if you are around 41” then they will be a few kp less tension and should feel softer than the 3885 weich.

String length is 104cm/41”… Ive been referencing this chart previously posted on the forum...

 

[what the pluck]

Tune your existing strings down so that it feels good in thump position.
Notate how much you tuned down.
Visit my Dropbox (link in string sticky) and use the string tension data (excel file) and formulas (self-calculating) to find how much the tension dropped.
(You can use cents (100 cents = one tempered halftone) behind the decimal point (1,50 = one halftone and 50 cents). Plus is tuned up, minus tuned down.
Find strings in the excel file that are in the range of the dropped tension.
It is less complicated than you think.

The simple solution (without guarantee you will like it) is get Perpetuals.

Thanks for the info…. My current strings are temperas that feel amazing in TP… Its the sound of pizz that don't work on my bass in the lower positions, mainly on the E and A strings… Perpetuals eh… solo tuned down or orchestra?… (do i really want to open this can of worms/)

 

[what the pluck]

Both the 3885 and 3886 solos have a taut feel compared to the S42's which have more give under the fingers. I liked both the 3/4 gauges for bowing but not for jazz pizz. I was actually surprised at how tight the 3/4 solos were on my bass. Not that they were high tension but the 4/4 solos are a lot softer feeling.

I've never really had a problem with tension under my left hand. For me as a jazz player the right hand feel when I pluck is important. I love the feel of guts under my right hand and the solos are close. I'm using Zyex lights now which have a soft feel but meatier sound.

If your left hand is giving you trouble in thumb postition I agree with George Clinkinbread that a lower action will do more than low tension strings but I think solos will help.

Yeah, I had Zyex weich prior to the Temperas and loved them although they were also a bit uncomfortable in TP - I have a thumb issue - The bass has been set up since with a much lower action since. I am tempted to get the Zyex back from the person I lent them to to see how they feel now with the new set up. I did like them a lot but they didnt last long, hence the potential spiro excursion…

 

[basss]

Tension numbers and feel are two different things although related. It sounds like you have the setup dialed in. The zyex lights are pretty soft feeling strings. Softer feeling than all the spiros save the solos. Having tried just about all of the variants of spiros but stark (and solos although I have a few years on SF solos) I would say 4/4 solo is your string.

 

[what the pluck]

The detuned Spiro Solos (4/4 in my case) are the least “Spirocore sounding” Spirocores I’ve tried, if that makes sense. And I mean that in a good way. Much warmer and woody sounding on my bass.

Hey there.. is this on a 3/4 bass? Where is your string height at? I am considering these as well on a 3/4.. These tuned to orchestra are the lowest tension spiro so i’m wondering what the feel is like… not too floppy? (i know that sounds a bit rude) I play pizz and arco...

 

[Paul New]

Is your string height very low?

I am an active height adjuster, but usually am somewhere around 11-10 mms. Never lower than 9mm on the G. No, not low.

 

[PBandJazzBass]

Hey there.. is this on a 3/4 bass? Where is your string height at? I am considering these as well on a 3/4.. These tuned to orchestra are the lowest tension spiro so i’m wondering what the feel is like… not too floppy? (i know that sounds a bit rude) I play pizz and arco...

Hello. My bass has a string length of about 108 cm which is either a large 3/4 or a 7/8, depending on who you ask.

Right now my action is pretty low. About 4 mm on the G and about 9 mm on the E.

It’s a naturally loud and punchy sounding bass. Kind of bright with a lot of mid range focus.

I think the feel isn’t too floppy, but that might be different on a bass with a shorter string length. They’re more flexible than Spiro Weich (S42) but less than Corelli 370F.

I haven’t noticed any loss in acoustic volume from my previous couple of sets (Corelli 370F and Spiro & Perpetual mix) at about the same string height.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Thanks for the info…. My current strings are temperas that feel amazing in TP… Its the sound of pizz that don't work on my bass in the lower positions, mainly on the E and A strings… Perpetuals eh… solo tuned down or orchestra?… (do i really want to open this can of worms/)

I never used Solo Spiros tuned down, but S42, S42W and 3885W and Perpetuals. The Perpetuals have the lowest tension from these, are flexible and bow well.
Unfortunately all steel core strings are rather thin.

As I understand you have issues with your (left?) thumb that makes thumb position problematic.
Since the high steel core strings are so thin and don’t stretch well (pressing a string down elongates the string) you will need a rather low action (and/)or a stretcher string.
Synthetic core strings stretch easier and have a larger diameter (specially on the higher strings) than steel core strings) and therefor are nicer in thumb position. But plucking larger diameter strings higher up in thumb position might get you a very short sustain. On the other hand thin lower tension strings that sound good down the fingerboard might sound weak in the lower positions.
This might be more of an issue with my high C on a 110 cm scale, but could apply to the G too.
And diameter is a main issue for me at the high C, I have tried 14 different high Cs and one of the steel core strings were playable for me at thumb position (unless the action went extremely low which raised other issues).

Since you played Zyex and Temperas (I have played none of them, but Evah Weich and Innovation Braided) which are all synthetic core strings, you might be happier with some of these.

As I remember reading your string scale is 3/4 (I assume between 194 and 106 cm), but we don’t know the height under the strings at the end of the fingerboard. Knowing that would be helpful. Steel core needs a lower height as they stretch not as well as synthetics.

Sometimes the windings (specially on the lower strings) are too tight and make the string stiff. I had that on the Innovation Braided A and E. To make them more flexible I run them bent over the tip of my thumb (sorry but that worked for me, I tried a slotted wheel but the string always turned away) in all direction over the full length (one hour per string and day and a sore thumb) but that helped a lot to get more sustain and a nicer sound. But that were the UK Braided, not the GHS ones that I haven’t tried.

The Perpetual I thought of were the normal Orchestrals but only as a low tension alternative to Spiros.

I understand money is an issue after buying the Temperas. To find what can work for you, getting some used sets (that you may resale later) won’t be too hard to your be pocket and when you found what works for you, you can order a new set.

Sorry that I haven’t included the Temperas in my excel file of string tensions (Dropbox link in string stickies), but the Zyex are there as well as all Spiros (and I think I have added the Perpetuals last time).
If you have the manufacturer data for the Temperas you can add them yourself in the excel file in the free space below the already entered strings. Just make sure not to overwrite the formulas in some of the fields. You only need to enter tension and scale length from the manufacturer data on the bin left side.
Some of the strings listed might be discontinued now.
Some diameter data is in the baen.tamu.edu file in the Dropbox.

That might assist you finding something that works for your thumb, but sound is another issue.

Good luck and don’t forget to tell us your actual string height (and maybe how low is still comfortable for you.