people have done lots of dumb stuff for decades, mostly because they saw other people doing it...
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Stack a GK Neo 4x10 (with wheels) on a 1 x15
- Thread starter TheGrateOz
- Start date
Not really, but ok. The "turn it down when the magic smoke appears" is just common sense... It doesn't mean you need to try and make people sell their perfectly functioning rigs for the sake of your e-peen. If there were no "merit" to having multi-driver rigs, nobody would A.) Use them or B.) make them available.
My just about fave cab ever was the Berg NV425- 310+115. Jim's other venerable 2x15 had a +6. But, you probably know better. It's a good thing most of us don't play music and like what we hear "from an engineering standpoint"...
Ironic post is ironic.
lulz and :Like:
Duff has been a GK "mixed driver" user for ages- listen to the fear in his voice when he talks about the risks and engineering failures in his rig:
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I don't need to post the endless amounts of other similar clips, but I can.
indeed they have! You can tell that from the number of posts on this site regarding blown fifteens.
All I heard was that he went to GC and some hack sold him a mixed rig, and he hasnt changed since then.
Problem is that a 4x10 will drown out any contribution that the fifteen gives. It will also drown out any signs of distress from that fifteen. It comes as a surprise when the fifteen just stops working. BTW when the "magic smoke" appears it's already too late for the driver.
There is so much information on this that a simple search will get you all you need to know.
It is entirely like that the 15s are not plugged in. It is also possible that not all the 4X10s are plugged in. If I were Flea and had a bunch of roadies and gear companies falling all over themselves to give me free gear I would have a huge outlandish stack behind me because it looks cool. In reality most large scale tours don't want the stage volume 3 stacks are putting out.
It doesn't mean you need to try and make people sell their perfectly functioning rigs for the sake of your e-peen. If there were no "merit" to having multi-driver rigs, nobody would A.) Use them or B.) make them available.
My just about fave cab ever was the Berg NV425- 310+115. Jim's other venerable 2x15 had a +6. But, you probably know better. It's a good thing most of us don't play music and like what we hear "from an engineering standpoint"...
1) If you read the OP again you will see that he was thinking of adding a 15 to his existing 4x10. No selling of existing equipment just advice to match his existing 4x10.
2) Folk tend to buy what they see other players using. Players tend to Know little about audio engineering.
3) Manufacturers are in business to sell stuff. They will make available what they think people will buy.
4) We are talking about full range cabinets here not those that use a crossover to feed an appropriate driver.
5) By dissing Audio Engineering you are going back to a time when EVERY speaker system was basically "drivers in a box". Folk Like Andy Lewis, Duke LeJeune, Alex Claber, Greenboy, Bill Fitzmaurice and many others have taken speaker system design to a level we players have never seen before.
6) thinking that a fifteen will give better lows than a ten or even a properly designed five is based on a myth and is obsolete thinking.
Too true, and once the public believes something (right or wrong) manufactures have no problem selling them that belief even if they know it is wrong. For example, just yesterday I was on the website of a major amp manufacture and they actually said that their Class D was a Digital amp. This amp is not even one of those amps with a bunch of digital processing it is just a Class D amp, but people think that Class D means digital so they have throw up their hands and said, "fine, this is digital amp."
Wow...some very interesting discussion here, and lots to think about...Thank you all.
Is this when I reveal that I only wanted to stack the cabinets to reach something off of a tall shelf?
Is this when I reveal that I only wanted to stack the cabinets to reach something off of a tall shelf?
LOL
In that case a pair of 4x10s will be more sturdy and able to support a human safely!
LOL
In that case a pair of 4x10s will be more sturdy and able to support a human safely!
Ha! Perhaps...
Side note: are there any device that could be put in between a high powered amp and a lower rated cabinet as a buffer? I just hate to buy two full separate rigs...
It's OK to use a higher powered amp if you use it intelligently. If you hear signs of distress TURN DOWN! If you hear those signs often get another cabinet.
Bottom line is use matching cabs. Dont mix a 410 and a 115. Companies like to advertise them that way but even they will tell you it's because it looks cool.
For the record, while Flea's cabinets are indeed plugged in and turned on, they are not loud enough to hear over the FOH, even from the very front of the stage. Flea himself uses IEM's. Someone could swap them out behind his back for Geddy's rotisserie ovens and neither Flea nor the audience could tell the difference.
I used to be one of the anti-science traditionalist crowd, but after actually trying out the engineers' methodology, I became a convert. If you like the sound of the 410 you got, get a second one and it will sound even better. If you don't, sell it and find a cab you like, and buy two of them.
I used to be one of the anti-science traditionalist crowd, but after actually trying out the engineers' methodology, I became a convert. If you like the sound of the 410 you got, get a second one and it will sound even better. If you don't, sell it and find a cab you like, and buy two of them.
The lamented Bill Fitzmaurice often pointed out that it's common for any two cabs (even mismatchec) to sound better to the player than just one cab. The issue becoming whether 2 matched cabs would be supreior.
While I would never recommend taking a manufacturer's (even GK who I respect and whose equipment I own) specs as gospel, let's look at the idea of increasing output by adding a 115.
According to GK's specs, the Neo 115 maxes out at 400 watts, and has a max output (this is a caluclated number that ignores compression that is important at least for the low frequencies) at 125 dB. The 410 takes 800 watts and maxes out at 132 dB. The 410 is 103 dB sensitive, and the 115 is 99 dB sensitive.
So when we stack the 115 with the 410, we cannot push the 115 past 125 dB. If the 410 were exactly as loud as the 115 at that power level (assuming matching impedance between the cabs, you'd expect the 2 together to be putting out 131 dB. A decibel less than the 410 will do all by itself, because you can't push the 410 all the way to its max without overdriving the 115.
Of course with the efficiency difference, the 115 adds significantly less than 6 dB (but still something) to total output wherever you put the volume control . . . because the 115 is just a little quieter than the 410 would be all by itself with half the power it is getting at any volume control setting where both cabs are still operating linearly.
While I would never recommend taking a manufacturer's (even GK who I respect and whose equipment I own) specs as gospel, let's look at the idea of increasing output by adding a 115.
According to GK's specs, the Neo 115 maxes out at 400 watts, and has a max output (this is a caluclated number that ignores compression that is important at least for the low frequencies) at 125 dB. The 410 takes 800 watts and maxes out at 132 dB. The 410 is 103 dB sensitive, and the 115 is 99 dB sensitive.
So when we stack the 115 with the 410, we cannot push the 115 past 125 dB. If the 410 were exactly as loud as the 115 at that power level (assuming matching impedance between the cabs, you'd expect the 2 together to be putting out 131 dB. A decibel less than the 410 will do all by itself, because you can't push the 410 all the way to its max without overdriving the 115.
Of course with the efficiency difference, the 115 adds significantly less than 6 dB (but still something) to total output wherever you put the volume control . . . because the 115 is just a little quieter than the 410 would be all by itself with half the power it is getting at any volume control setting where both cabs are still operating linearly.
Two Neos 410 are perfect pair. I use those with Fusion 550 and Mesa Boogie Big Block. Forget 115 with 410. Try two 115. That might sound great.
