Double Bass Stagg EUB megathread

[DoubleMIDI]

I also checked the endpin collar on my Stagg. As long as it doesn‘t move (which would be bad for the load from the endpin anyway) it should be safe to put the tailgut around the collar.
Just put it as close to the body as possible to put the lowest possible stress to the endpin assembly.

For the saddle height: the saddle should be as high as the string angle is halved by the bridge. Otherwise the bridge might move/fall towards the fingerboard.
On my old Clevinger the underlengths are very short and the bridge a bit higher than the Stagg‘s. Originally the bridge was screwed to the top via two squares of hard synthetic material to avoid a falling bridge.
I replaced the flat squares by two tapered pieces of wood so that the bridge now leans towards the saddle and put my homemade wood-sandwiched piezo disk pickups in between. I can regulate the height by putting wooden shins in between, but need to take the tension of the strings down to insert or remove the shims.
Of course, this is not possible on the Stagg with the built-in piezos.
Later versions of my Clevinger model had a raised saddle to half the string angle at the bridge, but also got less pressure to the bridge that way.

So leaving the string mounting block and run the tailgut over it might be a good idea. It might even need to be a bit higher.

 

[Deleted member 396076]

This is all very useful, but I would like some help better understanding the equation. When you say the saddle should be as high as the string angle is halved by the bridge, how do I use this information?

For example: if the string angle is 30 degrees, that would make the saddle height 15 something.. millimeters?

I think I understand what you are saying, but I feel like I could use an example.

 

[Happy Steve]

I think this means for 30deg, the string should be at 15 deg each side of the bridge. Then there is no pull either way from the strings trying to angle the bridge...

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Easy.
Measure the distance from bridge to saddle. Measure the same distance to the other side of the bridge. From this point measure the (tangential) distance to the string. The same height should be the saddle.
It is not important to exactly half the angle at the bridge, but it should be close to it.

 

[Deleted member 396076]

I just wanted to post a quick update/warning to anyone who may be following this. The tailpiece can be hung from the endpin, but the added pressure makes the endpin itself very difficult to extend and retract. I do not feel confident in the strength of that endpin to hold up in the long run.

So all that is left to do for the tailpiece is determine what is the best way to run the gut through it. I will be hanging it from the stock tailpiece/mounting block as previously pictured. If I run the gut through the back and across the front as is typical the whole tailpiece tends to tilt back on the bridge side. I believe this is due to the shortened length and the fact that the strings are pulling opposite of the gut. If I run the gut through the front and across the back it remains straight, but I am concerned about the pressure being exerted across the back of the tailpiece. I fit and installed a block of wood across the back so that the gut will have something to rest on and to remove the air gap to prevent crushing, but I am curious if anyone has a better suggestion.

I have moved the gut out of the way, but when it's mounted it runs along that block in an effort to relieve the pressure pulling on that arch. Does this look sufficient?

 

[DoubleMIDI]

That‘s OK for me.
Better safe than sorry…

I thought the tailpiece might get pressed against the body if the tailgut leaves over the top but didn’t thought that the very short length makes a much larger angle if strings and tailgut leave from different sides.

Sorry that the endpin gets clamped by the pressure of the tailgut. It might be a bit different on each instrument. I tried to pull hard at the barrel and my endpin was going a bit harder in and out, but not too much.
In theory you can simply add one or two knobs deeply anchored into the body where the tailgut runs over, either at the bottom or on the back, but this is not completely reversible. Even some DBs have such for the tailgut.

 

[Alib8]

Couple of questions:

-If I were to try adapting a new bridge, would a 1/8 or a 1/4 double bass bridge be a more close match? (I know sizes differ between manufacturers, will be buying online so trying to decide which size could have better luck of fitting)

-When shimming the neck, what would be the max stable shim height in terms of the screws still going in without needing to fill and redrill the holes?

 

[DoubleMIDI]

It depends if you change the angle if the neck or set the neck only higher.

I think I have put something about 1 to 2 mm thick at the inner part of the neck porch to change the neck angle. The screws were a bit harder to screw back in, but it worked. If you try a greater neck angle change you might need to drill the holes new.

If you just want to put the whole neck higher (at the same angle) you might need to get much longer screws as a few mm would only get the complete fingerboard the same amount higher, so you need several cm up and therefor longer screws.

The better solution IMHO is changing the neck angle because the string angles at the bridge are more similar than enlarging the overstand of the neck.

It would be possible to combine both, but you still need longer screws then.

 

[Matthew_84]

Anyone know what the output impedance of the Stagg EUB is?

I’ve been reading up on amps/preamps for EUBs and everyone advises to use one with at least 1 megohms input impedance.

It seems this is general advice with piezo pickups but since the Stagg has an internal preamp, I’m curious (assuming) the minimum input impedance may be different. I couldn’t find anything on the Stagg website.

I’m mostly asking because I’d like to put an Empress ParaEQ and a TC Electronic Polytune in the chain and they both have an input impedance is 1 megohm, and I don’t know if I should look for something else with a higher impedance value

 

[Deleted member 396076]

For the bridge I was told that the important thing to look for is the center to center measurement. Check out the Eminence eub bridge, it's a close match.

 

[Deleted member 396076]

That‘s OK for me.
Better safe than sorry…

I thought the tailpiece might get pressed against the body if the tailgut leaves over the top but didn’t thought that the very short length makes a much larger angle if strings and tailgut leave from different sides.

Sorry that the endpin gets clamped by the pressure of the tailgut. It might be a bit different on each instrument. I tried to pull hard at the barrel and my endpin was going a bit harder in and out, but not too much.
In theory you can simply add one or two knobs deeply anchored into the body where the tailgut runs over, either at the bottom or on the back, but this is not completely reversible. Even some DBs have such for the tailgut.

It's frustrating, but I am still prototyping while I'm on hold. I suppose it could be made to work, but I can't see investing in an upgraded endpin when that tailpiece block makes a perfectly suitable mounting block. Sometimes I get a bit caught up trying to make things what I want them to be and I fail to see them for what they need to be.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Anyone know what the output impedance of the Stagg EUB is?

I’ve been reading up on amps/preamps for EUBs and everyone advises to use one with at least 1 megohms input impedance.

It seems this is general advice with piezo pickups but since the Stagg has an internal preamp, I’m curious (assuming) the minimum input impedance may be different. I couldn’t find anything on the Stagg website.

I’m mostly asking because I’d like to put an Empress ParaEQ and a TC Electronic Polytune in the chain and they both have an input impedance is 1 megohm, and I don’t know if I should look for something else with a higher impedance value

I expect it to be in the 10 to 100 KOhms range, probably closer to or exactly 10 KOhms.
No need to worry about input impedance when there is already a preamp built in. Any instrument amp works, even a powered speaker does.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

It's frustrating, but I am still prototyping while I'm on hold. I suppose it could be made to work, but I can't see investing in an upgraded endpin when that tailpiece block makes a perfectly suitable mounting block. Sometimes I get a bit caught up trying to make things what I want them to be and I fail to see them for what they need to be.

It’s not that much the endpin assembly but the limited space where the endpin is located inside. The smallest angle of the endpin collar presses against the body wall inside. A new endpin assembly won’t help much with that.

Putting two dowels on the bottom is not a good idea, because it makes the locking of the endpin difficult. Didn’t think about that. But it is possible on the back.

So keep the end block. Why not.

The only thing I don’t like is that the tailgut is exposed to damage lying on a hard surface.
You can make two grooves in the end block so that nothing can press against it from the top or (if possible) reverse the end block, so it rather works like a high saddle.
The tailgut in free air can move if anything presses against it, so less risk of damage and more space under the tailgut.

Sometimes it is good not to have time for changes, because you have a bit more time for thinking about them.
(And me too…)

 

[Matthew_84]

I expect it to be in the 10 to 100 KOhms range, probably closer to or exactly 10 KOhms.
No need to worry about input impedance when there is already a preamp built in. Any instrument amp works, even a powered speaker does.

Awesome! Thanks DoubleMIDI!

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Regarding the tailgut anchoring I made a pic from my string tension measurement bank (like a single string bodyless DB) with a thick beech dowel which holds the tailgut for a single string tailpiece. Just to communicate the idea.

The other picture is a side view of my neck shinned neck (only inner part of the porch shimmed). The shim is about 3 mm high but this is really the maximum if you don‘t want to fill and drill. It was hard to get the screws back in and might have risked breaking them.

 

[Deleted member 396076]

Regarding the tailgut anchoring I made a pic from my string tension measurement bank (like a single string bodyless DB) with a thick beech dowel which holds the tailgut for a single string tailpiece. Just to communicate the idea.
View attachment 4994190
The other picture is a side view of my neck shinned neck (only inner part of the porch shimmed). The shim is about 3 mm high but this is really the maximum if you don‘t want to fill and drill. It was hard to get the screws back in and might have risked breaking them.
View attachment 4994193

That is just cool.. I like it. I think I have settled on a final design for the tailpiece/saddle block.. similar to what you are suggesting ironically.. but my mom is getting ready to have surgery so I will be off of the project for a bit. I think I will probably ditch the adjusters in favor of a slightly shorter bridge. I prefer a fixed bridge anyway, so it should work well.

Regarding the neck shim, could you also post a picture and/or measurements of the distance between the end of the neck and the body that you are able to achieve with that 3 mm?

Thanks again,
SMH

 

[Matthew_84]

Found out last night that I get about two weeks of runtime on a 9v battery with this thing. I will definitely have to do some of the mods I read about to lower the power draw, but in the meantime, I’m curious what others have resorted to?

Does anyone use rechargeable 9v batteries (and if so, is there a model/brand you’d recommend), or use a 9v battery power adapter to plug it into a wall outlet? If I’m running a cable to an amp anyway, the latter may need not be a horrible option (I’d need a wood block or something to push the adapter’s terminals to the terminals in the bass though).

 

[DoubleMIDI]

You know that leaving a plug into the output or headphone jack powers the preamp? So unplug anything to the bass if you don‘t play it.
There are rechargeables with a higher voltage (I think 9.6 volts) on the market. Hard to find but I will have a look tomorrow for the type of battery and charger.

 

[Matthew_84]

You know that leaving a plug into the output or headphone jack powers the preamp? So unplug anything to the bass if you don‘t play it.
There are rechargeables with a higher voltage (I think 9.6 volts) on the market. Hard to find but I will have a look tomorrow for the type of battery and charger.

Oh yeah, I am definitely unplugging when I am not playing it. The guy I brought it from said he put in a brand new battery the morning I picked it up, but who knows.

That is good to know there are 9.6v rechargeables. I’ll look for them, don’t worry. I only saw 8.4v ones on Amazon so I thought that’s all there were. I’ll post a link when I find one.

 

[Matthew_84]

The only 9.6v rechargeable batteries I found are the Powerex MHR9VP batteries, which require a separate MH-C490F charger.

They are pricey though. To get 2x batteries and the charger shipped to me in Canada I’m looking at over $100.

I’ll probably be doing some of the mods to reduce the power draw of the preamp (like disconnecting the light, headphone output, etc) sooner than later.