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Standby switch vs. leaving amp in run position vs. turning off

#81
Wasnex said:
The is may be what you are talking about.
View attachment 4143319

Source: http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/xfm/ACROSOUND_1955/acrosound_1955.pdf (page 11)
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That would be a successful design. Not the one I mentioned same concept.
But one more step further is everything shown, But a interstage transformer

Basically the Ultra Linear is what will make the amp work and save the screens.
Even then they are going overkill with inductors to keep things smooth.
You can blast these tubes with 720 to 750 volts. Your just gonna not get anywhere
Unless the Screens are 200 to 150 volts with very very clean power or UL

But its a beautiful amp. Can you imagine that many 8 pin tubes, 3 inductors, 3 rectifiers
Dual Power Tap Ultra Linear Output. And 6146 tubes. WOW
Blue Glow for days. And a heap of Iron.

LOL but no Stand Bye switch.
Think we are way off topic here...but ill blame my Obsession with 6146 tubes and whoever brought up.
In the first place. LOL

Anyways Stand Bye or Mute is a Musician Thing, Because a Field Amplifier or Piggy Back head will have
Inputs and Outputs constantly unplugged. So its just a helpful circuit.
 
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#82
Rolling Thunder said:
think of military vehicles that all start by turning a switch to "standby" or "wait" (with a corresponding light). When that light goes out, fire it up
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I think you are referring to diesel powered engines..I'm thinking that because I had a chevy pickup that was a military truck and it was diesel..that was a glow plow indicator to let you know it was ready to start...as a thread derail, that truck gave me more problems because I live in NY and the winters were too cold for it and even plugged in with the block heater it wouldn't start a lot of times in extreme cold so I had to garage it in the winter..then one day I went in to a store for a pepsi and came out to it on fire..lol...that thing had a lot of pulling power, geared low and in 4 - low it was a beast but it rode like a wagon from the 1800s...or worse..
 
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#83
murph7489 said:
I think you are referring to diesel powered engines..I'm thinking that because I had a chevy pickup that was a military truck and it was diesel..that was a glow plow indicator to let you know it was ready to start...as a thread derail, that truck gave me more problems because I live in NY and the winters were too cold for it and even plugged in with the block heater it wouldn't start a lot of times in extreme cold so I had to garage it in the winter..then one day I went in to a store for a pepsi and came out to it on fire..lol...that thing had a lot of pulling power, geared low and in 4 - low it was a beast but it rode like a wagon from the 1800s...or worse..
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Military vehicles run on JP8 diesel and have glow plugs.
 
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#85
BlueTalon said:
This seems like such a good idea to me, I don't know why it isn't standard practice.
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In general, guitarists don’t like changes and tend to reminisce about old (vintage) ideas. That’s slowly changing with modeling and profiling, but the evolution is VERY slow going.
 
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#86
agedhorse said:
In general, guitarists don’t like changes and tend to reminisce about old (vintage) ideas. That’s slowly changing with modeling and profiling, but the evolution is VERY slow going.
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How long before the add copy reads, "now with Vintage Sound automatic standby, modeled after an (early) 1963 Switchcraft toggle switch" ?
 
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#88
Jim C said:
How long before the add copy reads, "now with Vintage Sound automatic standby, modeled after an (early) 1963 Switchcraft toggle switch" ?
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The amount of money some guitar players pay for such things as, " genuine screws from a '63 Stratocaster pickguard ", they will buy anything.
 
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#90
Wasnex said:
You might be misinterpreting the rationale a bit. These planes were probably kept at a full ready state, rather than in standby, because this sort of instrument of national power requires as close to a 100% Green readiness status as possible.

In the event of a malfunction, I would expect that an alarm panel would immediately show some sort of indication. It's likely a technician would take a quick look and if the problem could not be rectified immediately, a different plane would be brought online.

I would not expect an alarm to go off for equipment that was in standby. So equipment had to be fully powered up so it could be monitored. Sort of a proof of life concept.

Also it's likely that these planes had some backup circuits that were held in standby, so they could be brought online quickly in the event of a primary system failure. In the event of a failure, a technician might swap out the malfunctioning primary circuit with a spare. I would not be surprised if the technician was part of the planes normal air crew. The plane's readiness status might be considered amber until the operations of the replacement circuit had been checked and placed in standby.

Keep in mind, military equipment has regular preventative maintenance intervals to ensure everything is "clean, dry, and serviceable." PMIs are used to clean equipment, take measurements to ensure everything is performing to spec, and also make periodic adjustments to optimize performance. When I worked on tube radios, we did not just check to make sure the radios were working to spec. When certain PMI interval came up, we did a complete alignment of the transceiver to make sure it was working at peak performance.

Since this plane was such a critical asset, I would not be surprised if some of the tubes were metered and swapped out before reaching the end of their expected service life. Keep in mind, the military is primarily focused on the mission, and they go to great lengths to ensure success.
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I meant standby as ready to roll, not the standby of a standby switch. The electronics of the time were much more primitive than today's gear and didn't have the alerts you suggest.
I was air crew on the EC-121P in the early 1960s. It was a flying electronic surveillance platform. It has two radar systems, radio capabilities to communicate with any radio in the world. We would communicate with taxis when we were about to land in Scotland. We also had the ability to communicate with the SOSUS system. All our gear was tube. Our only alert was when something wasn't working correctly. We crew members were all electronics technicians, but we also had a tech on crew who would try to repair things in flight. If we had outage preventing our completing our mission, another plane was ready to launch to take over.
We flew our missions out of Keflavik, Iceland. We filled in the gaps in the land based DEW line where the line of sight radar of the time couldn't see.
So, I'm confident of my statement that leaving a tube amp on for the entire gig is the correct thing to do.
 
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#91
Gravedigger Dav said:
I meant standby as ready to roll, not the standby of a standby switch. The electronics of the time were much more primitive than today's gear and didn't have the alerts you suggest.
I was air crew on the EC-121P in the early 1960s. It was a flying electronic surveillance platform. It has two radar systems, radio capabilities to communicate with any radio in the world. We would communicate with taxis when we were about to land in Scotland. We also had the ability to communicate with the SOSUS system. All our gear was tube. Our only alert was when something wasn't working correctly. We crew members were all electronics technicians, but we also had a tech on crew who would try to repair things in flight. If we had outage preventing our completing our mission, another plane was ready to launch to take over.
We flew our missions out of Keflavik, Iceland. We filled in the gaps in the land based DEW line where the line of sight radar of the time couldn't see.
So, I'm confident of my statement that leaving a tube amp on for the entire gig is the correct thing to do.
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:thumbsup:

Depending on the mission, I would not be surprised if a plane on standby might have the engine running. It' really depends on how critical it is for the mission to begin at a moments notice.

At various times over the years the Air Force had nuclear armed bombers in the Air 24/7. This was sort of a standby status. Ready to drop the big one.

I don't really see a problem with letting most amps run for 20 minutes for breaks between sets. So if you want to leave your amp on all night I don't have an argument.

I don't think I have ever seen one of my tube amps fail or exhibit problems because it was put in standy, and then set back to operate. My amps have had problems while in operate for an extended time, and while being brought up cold from off. But it's certainly possible that the stress of switching the amp in and out of standby could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

To be honest, I don't really have a set way of doing things. I consider the situation and adjust. My goal is to reduce the risk of accidental noises occurring while I am on break. If an amp has a mute I will probably use it. If an amp does not have a mute, but has a standby that does not produce a massive transient, I will probably use it. If the amp makes a loud pop when I take it out of standby I will probably unplug the instrument cable from the amp and bass. (I play an active bass, and unplug on breaks).
 
#96
Peter Sellers was supposed to have done the Major Kong role, making a total of 4 characters, but he bailed on it. Now it's difficult to imagine anyone else delivering some of those lines. All the actors thought he was just maintaining 'character' when he talked like that off-camera. Ha! Loved Slim Pickens...still love that movie.
 
#97
agedhorse said:
This too is mostly urban myth, based on a small amount of truth.

Large format mixing consoles are solid state and are fully warmed up within a couple of minutes. Modern (past 30 years) circuitry is designed to be self stabilizing, one of the wonders of (good) solid state technology.
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I can say from personal experience, that I had an Alesis Quadraverb which the display screen began showing jumbled letters instead of the proper patch names. I took it to an friend who ran an electronics repair shop and who was also the head tech for Korg and Marshall. I showed him what was happening with the display screen and asked could it be that the internal battery was dead? He said those batteries rarely fail and that he had seen that kind of odd behavior before and would try resoldering all of the solder points that he could access and see if that takes care of the problem. It did. The screen was much brighter and the unit worked like it was brand new again.. and still does.
 
#98
Redbrangus said:
:laugh: Edit: Pardon me; what I meant to say is I don't believe either of these concepts is rooted in fact.
Click to expand...

I can say from personal experience, that I had an Alesis Quadraverb which the display screen began showing jumbled letters instead of the proper patch names. I took it to an friend who ran an electronics repair shop and who was also the head tech for Korg and Marshall. I showed him what was happening with the display screen and asked could it be that the internal battery was dead? He said those batteries rarely fail and that he had seen that kind of odd behavior before and would try resoldering all of the solder points that he could access and see if that takes care of the problem. It did. The screen was much brighter and the unit worked like it was brand new again.. and still does. He said the solder can go "cold" over time due to repeatedly heating up and cooling down.
 
#99
Where a solder joint fails this way, the defect may be in a poor quality joint (sometimes happens at a rate of less than 1ppm), poor solder chemistry (a serious manufacturing defect) or poor thermal design of the product.

In a properly designed and manufactured product, this is uncommon. In fact it’s MUCH more rare than urban myth might suggest.

I have seen tech reports from service centers where the same tech claims every product that crosses their bench has cold solder joints, yet I know for a fact exactly what the solder joint defect rate is and how many units can be expected to have one. Double sided PCBs with plated holes, well executed solder chemistry and good process control can get the solder defect rate into the ppb (parts per billion) level on a per pad basis.

This is why (good) manufacturers study their defective products and run statistical analysis on the data. Understanding what’s REALLY going on is far better than guessing, or taking urban myth at face value.
 
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#100
Properly designed and manufactured is the goal but unfortunately not all companies do that. High quality control standards are so important.

Last night I had an old Eventide H3000 Ultra-Harmonizer and a Yamaha SPX-90 from the 80’s apart. They really had their act together. Well designed and manufactured. They can stand up to the best of today which says a lot. As I recall, the Alesis Quadraverb was mostly surface mount, well done as well.

Good manufacturing practices evolve, standards and quality control change. Better manufacturing processes, machine inspection all help make better products today.
 
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