Stanley Clarke bummed me out last night

[Barkless Dog]

I find it hard to believe that fans od Stanley or GD require School Days & Dukey Stick.

Amazing musicians make amazing music regardless. How could anyone be dissapointed by Stanley?

By going back to old music it becomes a retro act, but I guess a more profitable one.

I saw Johnny Winter about 6 years ago. He was so out of it he had to be amlost carried on stage, guitars had to be put on & off of him, sat on a stool the whole show.

He played no old hits, could barely sing, but still was amazing on guitar. The only retro thing he did was when they put his old firebird on him. I hope he is doing better these days.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I bought Stanley Clarke's latest album "Jazz in the Garden" - mostly a trio with Hiromi and Lenny White and it is one of my favourite recent albums - lovely, melodic playing - I love the way he plays the head to some tunes on Double Bass.

The album is all DB apart from one track and I would love to see Stanley playing Double Bass - you are very lucky! I think the best and most satisfying albums he played on were mostly Double Bass - "Light as a Feather" by RTF is a true classic and all DB!

I also bought the recent Return to Forever live 2CD set and Stanley is mostly playing Double Bass on that - so I can see how anybody who has bought his recent CDs would expect Double Bass and would have been very disappointed to hear some kind of 70s slap-fest ...

I think that great musicians grow and there are parts of their career that were necessary to their development, but which they wouldn't want to repeat ...

 

[JimmyM]

I think that great musicians grow and there are parts of their career that were necessary to their development, but which they wouldn't want to repeat ...

that's insane.



ok, so if that's what you're planning to do, you should warn your fans that's what you're going to do so they can save their money. hey, play some new stuff if you want. i just don't see the point in alienating your audience by not playing the stuff that got you to the dance. that's what the audience wants. if ac/dc suddenly started playing prog rock, i'd feel cheated.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

But we're talking about Jazz - not rock! Jazz is about improvising in the moment and reacting spontaneously - not repeating what you did on the last 10 nights!

Also - the albums that are being talked about are from the 70s/80s - 30-40 years ago, when Stanley was a young tyro, shaking people up with sheer virtuosity.

Now he is a mature older man, with huge experience and a much better sense of what is of true value in music. He is still a virtuoso and a great musician, but he is not the same person that he was in the 70s and we can't expect him to be that person!

I know that looking at debates I had here (TB) from ten years ago - I am not that person now - I can imagine it's a vastly bigger difference for Stanley!

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

i just don't see the point in alienating your audience by not playing the stuff that got you to the dance. .

What about the people who bought the latest CDs - of thoughtful, acoustic Jazz - shouldn't Stanley be loyal to his audience now? Wouldn't they feel cheated, to hear a load of old and dated material from the 70s and 80s...

 

[aborgman]

I wouldn't care about upright for the whole show.

I would be p*ssed at a 55 minute show. Ludicrous.

 

[aborgman]

say what you want about van halen, but when they reunited a couple years ago to tour, they played the hits and nothing but. i lose a lot of respect for bands who refuse to play their hits. i guess if you're neil young, you think the crowd who paid to see you play owes it to you to indulge your every boring thought, but guess what? without those people, neil young is just another canadian hippie with a high voice and mediocre guitar skills. and i say that as a compliment because i like neil.

Bingo.

I don't have a problem with a band that want to mix new and old stuff... but just plain refusing to play the songs that got you those fans int he first place? Pure, unbridled pretentiousness.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I wouldn't care about upright for the whole show.

I would be p*ssed at a 55 minute show. Ludicrous.

That's fair enough - I would expect maybe 90 mins with an interval - but most of the discussion hadn't really been about this and the actual details are a bit sketchy - who else was in the band for example - how was it advertised etc. ?

 

[aborgman]

On the other hand, isn't it great to play for less than an hour?

No.

Barely getting warmed up at that point. I'm disappointed if I have to quit after an hour...

 

[aborgman]

That's fair enough - I would expect maybe 90 mins with an interval - but most of the discussion hadn't really been about this and the actual details are a bit sketchy - who else was in the band for example - how was it advertised etc. ?

90 minutes with NO break might be acceptable for a $20-$30 ticket.

$100 - I'd better be getting a couple hours... and the venue had better be small... and the accoustics better be good...

 

[aborgman]

What about the people who bought the latest CDs - of thoughtful, acoustic Jazz - shouldn't Stanley be loyal to his audience now? Wouldn't they feel cheated, to hear a load of old and dated material from the 70s and 80s...

Hmmm... couldn't he do, you know, a compromise - and do both?

What an amazing idea, attempting to appeal to all of your fans.

Or you can do one or the other, alienate some fans, and keep your "artistic integrity" - but lose out on ticket sales. It really comes down to whether he cares more about his art or his pocketbook, and how many folks prefer the new stuff vs. the old.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Hmmm... couldn't he do, you know, a compromise - and do both?

What an amazing idea, attempting to appeal to all of your fans.

Or you can do one or the other, alienate some fans, and keep your "artistic integrity" - but lose out on ticket sales. It really comes down to whether he cares more about his art or his pocketbook, and how many folks prefer the new stuff vs. the old.

Well - how do you know what people want? I think you just have to play the music you are playing, put out CDs and hope people like them - then if they like the CDs you would expect they come along to see you play that stuff!

I don't see how you would expect to be playing something you did 30 - 40 years ago!!

Also - Jazz is very different - it's not about "songs" and "hits" - it's about collective improvisation.

Jazz is about constantly re-inventing .

 

[aborgman]

Well - how do you know what people want?

Generally the easiest way is to ask them and listen to their opinions.

I think you just have to play the music you are playing, put out CDs and hope people like them - then if they like the CDs you would expect they come along to see you play that stuff!

Have to?

Nah, that may be someones artistic choice - but no one has to. It's a decision they make.

I don't see how you would expect to be playing something you did 30 - 40 years ago!!

I don't see how one would expect to quit playing something they played 30-40 years ago.

Also - Jazz is very different - it's not about "songs" and "hits" - it's about collective improvisation.

...and the music business is about making money, not about music.

 

[JimmyM]

What about the people who bought the latest CDs - of thoughtful, acoustic Jazz - shouldn't Stanley be loyal to his audience now? Wouldn't they feel cheated, to hear a load of old and dated material from the 70s and 80s...

nobody ever gets sick of classic tunes. i'd say even pull out that clarke/duke song that became a hit. i think it's pretentious to expect the audience not to want the hits. but the acts sure don't mind taking the money, do they? that's never pretentious.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

nobody ever gets sick of classic tunes. i'd say even pull out that clarke/duke song that became a hit. i think it's pretentious to expect the audience not to want the hits. but the acts sure don't mind taking the money, do they? that's never pretentious.

But we're talking about Jazz here - not a top 20 hits band or a classic rock act...

Stanley has always been a Jazz musician and that is about improvising and responding to the musicians you are playing with - what makes it Jazz, is that it is precisely not about reproducing old material verbatim!

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Generally the easiest way is to ask them and listen to their opinions.

That's patently ridiculous - how many top-notch bands stand up and ask their audience what they want to play...? Maybe a covers function band at your wedding...

If I go to see a really great artist, I want to see/hear them play their instrument and make great music - if I respected them, then I would trust them to be the best person to make the artistic decisions and not a straw-poll of the audience!

I don't see how one would expect to quit playing something they played 30-40 years ago.

...and the music business is about making money, not about music.

Well there are some people who fall into the category of "true artists" and Standley Clarke is one of those and his music is about art more than business and I am very glad that there are still people like that around - with true integrity!!

 

[Brad Johnson]

No.

Barely getting warmed up at that point. I'm disappointed if I have to quit after an hour...

I guess I was thinking about people who don't always take an hour to warm up. I've had gigs where I'm really in the zone after three sets... but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate gigs like the one I have next Saturday:

Trio hit, one set (might hit 60 minutes at the most), $200, stay for dinner or leave.

That is cool by me.

 

[aborgman]

Well there are some people who fall into the category of "true artists" and Standley Clarke is one of those and his music is about art more than business and I am very glad that there are still people like that around - with true integrity!!

...and that is their decision.

It's also the audiences decision to boo, call out for songs they want, and stop buying tickets to the artists shows.

Everyone is welcome to their "integrity" - they just shouldn't complain about the COST of that integrity.

 

[aborgman]

I guess I was thinking about people who don't always take an hour to warm up. I've had gigs where I'm really in the zone after three sets... but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate gigs like the one I have next Saturday:

Trio hit, one set (might hit 60 minutes at the most), $200, stay for dinner or leave.

That is cool by me.

I'd do it because the money is good - but I'd rather make the same money and double the playing time.

It doesn't take me multiple sets to get into the zone... it's just that when I'm in the zone the last thing I want to do is quit playing long before I've even used up a little energy.

 

[groooooove]

the guys blows on an upright

so, yeah, you are missing something

was it you who played on the original recording of "spain?" or was that stanley?

IMO hes a much better upright player than electric.