I'm seeing a very stodgy version of prog rock denoted here...if so, it's gone and will never return because people don't have that kind of musical background anymore. if Genesis is the definition of prog, then it depends on Celtic music and literary fusion and I'd prefer Magma which was a Germanic rock fusion, or Tortoise which has no vocals or "stories" to be told, or Don Cabeliero or Russian Circles who are actually a bit more recent and Are Prog rock, if not, it's more nostalgia. Early King Crimson has lots more jazz in it (and a wide musical background) and Kate Bush certainly absorbed the whole past of British wind band concert and musical theatre. Prog as nostalgia is nice, psychedelic is too, but IMHO, the real spirit of prog rock dictates not capes, but a disregard of labels and a true pushing of music borders to create music, not note demonstrations or nostalgia. It's like playing science fiction rather than a period costume piece. Prog music happens with all sorts of fusions, not just Celtic.
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Starting a Prog Rock Band
- Thread starter amusicalperson
- Start date
In Los Angeles, there are a few original prog rock bands. My old band Final Gravity was about equal parts prog, classic rock and metal and we could play on the bill with a variety of other bands. Gigs were not hard to come by. Audiences were relatively receptive, though I think they sometimes got bored during the longer instrumental passages.
Our guitarist was also in a King Crimson tribute band and those guys never had trouble getting gigs or having people show up to see them.
Our guitarist was also in a King Crimson tribute band and those guys never had trouble getting gigs or having people show up to see them.
Firstly, this is all hypothetical. Secondly, you can skip to the main question in red below. I think my undying love for Prog Rock has finally motivated me to start a Prog band. Now I know a lot of problems are going to stem from this and I think I have most of them figured out.
1) Talent - I know a few musicians in the area who are highly talented and would probably be interested. I, without a doubt, already have a guitarist who would give up everything to join a Prog Band.
2) A Keyboardist - atleast in my area, keyboardist are rare. I play keys myself but I would obviously want to play bass in this band. I was thinking maybe I could fake it by adding another guitarist or double critical keyboard parts.
3) A singer who can sing high - Very fortunate to already have this one covered!
Those are the main concerns I can think of right now. Now, to the reason I posted this. I fully understand that Prog Rock is pretty much a dead art-form. Most of the modern Prog bands are more Metal in nature and this is NOT what I want to go for. I'm going for more of a 60's-70's Prog Band. We all know the bands, Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, ELP, etc. So this presents a few problems:
1) I have no problem assembling this band solely for fun. I really don't care if we ever gig. That being said, it would be awesome to present this band live.
2) I also have no problem solely covering old Prog but if this road took us to writing originals, so be it.
3) I'm going to have to find members who would also understand this IS a passion project. I'm in plenty of "make money" bands and do a lot of fill-in work so I don't mind having a passion project band.
Actually, this is what I was getting at. Are any of you guys currently gigging or have gigged in a Prog Rock band? I know it's not the most-marketable music but I believe their has to be SOMEBODY out there gigging Prog Rock. If so, I would appreciate any insight into how you managed to get gigs and your bands' song choices.
I know this was long-winded but I wanted to cover my ground before I get slammed by any anti-Prog guys.Also, I have no problem with any general Prog-related discussions on here.
P.S. I'm highly considering capes being mandatory.
EDIT: I think it's mandatory for myself to get a double-neck as well.
As someone who also loves progressive rock, at least high-quality progressive rock (not the cheesy variety), I can relate to how you feel. And I encourage you to follow your bliss.
Based on what I can tell, you seem to have your head on straight about this. You realize that this is a labor of love, that it doesn't have to turn a profit, and that it will take time to do it right. So jump in and get it started!
A few other things: I think you'll find that, eventually, you'll need someone for keyboards. I've rarely heard any progressive rock band that didn't have them, King Crimson being the only exception that comes to mind. I have no doubt it will be tough to find the right player, but don't give up.
I think you should plan to gig. You may have to think way outside the box about viable venues and situations, as you certainly can't count on your local watering hole to cut you much slack. So get creative about gigging. Get real creative.
If I were in your shoes, I'd develop some original material to go with the cover tunes. Since you already play keyboards, that should make writing more straightforward. In my opinion, progressive rock really lends itself to original material. That's where you really get an opportunity to shine (And "shining" is what it's all about, amirite?).
Don't overlook some of the second-generation and third-generation "neo prog" bands to cover. I agree that many of them have gone metal(ish) (i.e. Dream Theater, Opeth), and "prog metal" is certainly not my kind of thing either, but not all of them have gone that way. There are lots of very good, more recent progressive rock bands, especially if you're into symphonic prog, that could be worth your while to check out, including: The Flower Kings, Iluvatar, Happy the Man, Echolyn, etc.
Get the bass and drums tight. Very, very tight. Then get 'em tighter still. Bass and drums can never be too tight.
Whatever you do, make sure that it sounds good. If you're good enough, you'll get gigs - it almost doesn't matter the genre. But quality has to be Number One. There's nothing more tedious and amateurish than bad prog, badly performed. And at least in my opinion, there's relatively little that's more impressive than outstanding prog, performed masterfully.
MM
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Great thread.
Too many people get caught up in their own impression of what they think "prog rock" is supposed to be. They force it into a box with a label ('70s prog, prog metal, neo prog, etc.) ... and that's about as anti-progressive as you can get. I understand the inherent need to identify things. But, the whole point of progressive music is to push the boundaries. Be progressive.
My advice as a prog enthusiast since the '70s: Do what you want to do, without the burdens of worrying about whether or not you are playing a Ric or an authentic Mellotron. Bands like Yes and Crimson used the tools of their time, as do bands like Dream Theater and Symphony X today. If you are worried about presenting an image of identifiable prog rock, then worry about those things. If you truly want to play progressive music, though, just do it with whatever it takes to realize the sounds in your head.
... and by all means wear a cape (if that's your thing).
Too many people get caught up in their own impression of what they think "prog rock" is supposed to be. They force it into a box with a label ('70s prog, prog metal, neo prog, etc.) ... and that's about as anti-progressive as you can get. I understand the inherent need to identify things. But, the whole point of progressive music is to push the boundaries. Be progressive.
My advice as a prog enthusiast since the '70s: Do what you want to do, without the burdens of worrying about whether or not you are playing a Ric or an authentic Mellotron. Bands like Yes and Crimson used the tools of their time, as do bands like Dream Theater and Symphony X today. If you are worried about presenting an image of identifiable prog rock, then worry about those things. If you truly want to play progressive music, though, just do it with whatever it takes to realize the sounds in your head.
... and by all means wear a cape (if that's your thing).
Even if it's just for self-gratification, go for it. I'd much rather hear a band doing 70's prog than Dream Theater.
I admire your ambition. Just realize you are playing to a very select audience and the work involved in nailing these 70s prog rock songs will be arduous to say the least. I'm not sure if you intend making a lot of money from your venture, prog rock can be like marmite, people either love it or hate it. (Especially if you intend playing Thick and a Brick Volume 1 and 2 by the Tull). I think the amount of work involved in playing any songs longer than say 10 minutes isn't really worth it. So that limits you to earlier stuff (before bands like Yes and Genesis disappeared up their own asses). But best of luck in trying something new.
btw, soon to be, EH has a new pedal like the fantastic B9 & C9...the Mel9. they will sell allot of these, get ready...
You will need a fake cocoon for the keyboardist. Also, you could try a drums/bass/keys arrangement like The Nice.
please expand on those ideas. They sound all truthy, but how could those bands avoid whatever it was you meant as the decades went by? Poor Emerson cared too much I fear.
It been close to 3 decades, but I played with a progressive rock band that built up a pretty good following. We never made a ton of money, but we did alright. Part of our appeal is that we were willing to play some crossover songs, like "Why Can't This Be Love" by Van Halen and "The Mission" by Queensryche. And we also made it a point to play prog songs that were well known on the radio, like "Long Distance Runaround" and "Spirit of Radio." When you play some of those, you get a little license to dig into some of the deeper, "proggier" tracks and to play progressive originals.
Go for it 100%! I was in a prog band and am looking to start something up again soon – just need to find a keyboard player and a good drummer. Good grief it’s tough to find a progressive drummer who doesn’t want to be the second coming of Portnoy or Mangini. This would just be for fun – if we play out we do, if not, no big whoop. For me creating the music is half the fun.
I too like prog in the vein of Yes (my favorite too), Genesis, etc. I personally think there is a resurgence of good progressive music in recent years – and not progressive metal offerings either. Bands such as Moon Safari, Neal Morse era Spock’s Beard, Transatlantic, The Flower Kings, and especially Big Big Train all put out some really interesting and beautiful music. Big Big Train, in particular has a style that really reminds me of early Genesis recordings – especially their last 5 or 6 albums.
Actually Jon Anderson and Roine Stolt, the guitar player from the Flower Kings, Transatlantic, etc., are working on an album together which should be out this June.
For what it's worth I play a Yamaha BB2025x
I too like prog in the vein of Yes (my favorite too), Genesis, etc. I personally think there is a resurgence of good progressive music in recent years – and not progressive metal offerings either. Bands such as Moon Safari, Neal Morse era Spock’s Beard, Transatlantic, The Flower Kings, and especially Big Big Train all put out some really interesting and beautiful music. Big Big Train, in particular has a style that really reminds me of early Genesis recordings – especially their last 5 or 6 albums.
Actually Jon Anderson and Roine Stolt, the guitar player from the Flower Kings, Transatlantic, etc., are working on an album together which should be out this June.
For what it's worth I play a Yamaha BB2025x
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Simple response. If you love it go for it. Give it your all, make sure all your players are equally talented. There is always a market somewhere for a very talented band.
Then....
Practice practice practice!
Then....
Practice practice practice!
"Prog Rock" isn't just technicality!! That's the problem with the entire meaning of the genre these days. Somebody thought that because Genesis did something that had a 9/8 rhythm part with the keys playing in 4/4 over it they had to do exactly the same - EVERY TIME. If there is no sound songwriting ideas then it is meaningless.
That being said - If you want to do a prog thing then do it! Don't listen to the people who say you have to write music for the masses to digest. You are NOT just doing music for others; you have to do some for yourself if you need to. It doesn't matter if girls can dance to it or not. That's the inherent problem with the music industry now anyway. Buck the trend I say!!
Aaaah - you're breaking my heart. Too bad we aren't in the same area of the country: I cut my teeth on Keith Emerson (RIP) and Rick Wakeman in my youth. I've been predominantly playing bass the past few years, but would gladly step back behind the keys for a classic Prog band. In my area (Central NY State), we had a couple of bands that played some classic Prog in the back in the 80's (early Genesis, King Crimson, Yes, UK) but I haven't heard anything like that recently live.
I vote to follow your muse - and good luck!
I vote to follow your muse - and good luck!
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...Get the bass and drums tight. Very, very tight. Then get 'em tighter still. Bass and drums can never be too tight.
Whatever you do, make sure that it sounds good. If you're good enough, you'll get gigs - it almost doesn't matter the genre. But quality has to be Number One. There's nothing more tedious and amateurish than bad prog, badly performed. And at least in my opinion, there's relatively little that's more impressive than outstanding prog, performed masterfully.
MM
Yep, yep, yep. Could not agree more. Like in Heart of the Sunrise. CS's "solo" in the early part of the song isn't a solo, it's a duet between him and Bruford.
Firstly, this is all hypothetical. Secondly, you can skip to the main question in red below. I think my undying love for Prog Rock has finally motivated me to start a Prog band. Now I know a lot of problems are going to stem from this and I think I have most of them figured out.
1) Talent - I know a few musicians in the area who are highly talented and would probably be interested. I, without a doubt, already have a guitarist who would give up everything to join a Prog Band.
2) A Keyboardist - atleast in my area, keyboardist are rare. I play keys myself but I would obviously want to play bass in this band. I was thinking maybe I could fake it by adding another guitarist or double critical keyboard parts.
3) A singer who can sing high - Very fortunate to already have this one covered!
Those are the main concerns I can think of right now. Now, to the reason I posted this. I fully understand that Prog Rock is pretty much a dead art-form. Most of the modern Prog bands are more Metal in nature and this is NOT what I want to go for. I'm going for more of a 60's-70's Prog Band. We all know the bands, Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, ELP, etc. So this presents a few problems:
1) I have no problem assembling this band solely for fun. I really don't care if we ever gig. That being said, it would be awesome to present this band live.
2) I also have no problem solely covering old Prog but if this road took us to writing originals, so be it.
3) I'm going to have to find members who would also understand this IS a passion project. I'm in plenty of "make money" bands and do a lot of fill-in work so I don't mind having a passion project band.
Actually, this is what I was getting at. Are any of you guys currently gigging or have gigged in a Prog Rock band? I know it's not the most-marketable music but I believe their has to be SOMEBODY out there gigging Prog Rock. If so, I would appreciate any insight into how you managed to get gigs and your bands' song choices.
I know this was long-winded but I wanted to cover my ground before I get slammed by any anti-Prog guys.
P.S. I'm highly considering capes being mandatory.
EDIT: I think it's mandatory for myself to get a double-neck as well.
I find it interesting that you separated "keyboardist" from talent. Personally I would say you should try without one. One of my least favorite aspects of prog is the keyboards.
Prog is a tough sell in many ways. You are right, the playing is difficult, there is very little market for it, and honestly little hope of success. That's a big investment to just play covers in your garage. The musicians capable of playing at that level may be interested in greener pastures. Then there is the audience. Louisiana is known for a few musical styles, but I don't think prog is one of them. If venues hire a cover band, they want music that makes people drink or dance. Again, prog isn't either of those.
You've got a good sized boulder to roll up hill; which is to say it will be hard but not impossible.
But seriously think about no keys. Those old Rhodes and Mellotron tones make me want to beat the player to death with their instrument. Its not 1975 anymore. Look into some new technology will ya.
Actually, this is what I was getting at. Are any of you guys currently gigging or have gigged in a Prog Rock band? I know it's not the most-marketable music but I believe their has to be SOMEBODY out there gigging Prog Rock.
EDIT: I think it's mandatory for myself to get a double-neck as well.
I approve of any excuse to play great music and get a double-neck!
I feel the same as you do about progressive music in general including art-rock, jazz-rock fusion, etc. So I was pleased when I was playing a regular ol' cover gig this weekend and an audience member started geeking out about my basses and gear; turns out he has a fusion band. So I asked him where he was playing because I also am confused about where to play this kind of music, and he named a club that I play at occasionally. Therefore it is possible.
I keep seeing great videos from the Baked Potato club in LA. Every time I wonder if there are similar joints in my area (west coast) that I'm unaware of.
Good composer borrow, great composers steal, awful people Copy/Paste.
