Double Bass Starting out on upright bass... Intonation

[Jason Sypher]

Get the best classical teacher you can find. Go! Now! Forget your ego. Forget what you think you want to become. Forget that you want to: "rock" "swing" "jam" "you can just teach yourself" "you don't want to be a serious play" etc etc. You need to give two years to this teacher. Do whatever they say. Practice every day. Thank me in two years.

 

[Jaygetsreal]

It can be helpful for beginners. Many violin and cello teachers use markers for beginning students.

My sympathies to all violin, viola and cello teachers. It must be agonizing.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

Alright, So for me to practice my fretting and intonation, would it be more beneficial for me to mark the fingerboard and neck with tape so I know where the notes are, or should I just do it by ear and feel from the beginning?

I say yes, temporarily mark the board with tape if that is what you need. Not a big deal at the start.
In a short time you should be able to hit anchor notes accurately using muscle memory, and off comes that tape.

Figure out if your bass is a D or Eb neck. That is one anchor note you will use on four strings at the heel. Get a feel for the fourth on each string and regularly check its intonation against the open string. Each anchor note you are sure of intonation wise means notes around it will be very closely in tune. Easy to get the fifth note now, it is so close to the fourth. Etc up the board using harmonics and muscle memory. Then when you hit the mid harmonics it is just like starting all over at the open strings, keep going up

One of my conductors stated that it is not uncommon for a professional cellist to pencil mark the board high up for a treble clef note that has to be landed on perfectly. His point is do what you have to do to be in tune.

There are intonation skills that are learned with advanced technique. See your teacher.

And you want your ear and muscle memory to develop intonation accuracy, not your eyes.

 

[Ketbass]

Alright, So for me to practice my fretting and intonation, would it be more beneficial for me to mark the fingerboard and neck with tape so I know where the notes are, or should I just do it by ear and feel from the beginning?

I'll just throw this in here.
1. Are you a beginner musician? Or have you been playing electric bass for a long time?
2. As a beginner upright player, I took a lot of learned information over the last 40 years from playing fretless bass to work on my intonation. It made it much easier. A lot of initial work is learning to be a musician too, along with learning how to play the upright bass. If you have a lot of this information under your belt, then the process goes pretty quickly.
3. I also agree with getting lessons from a qualified teacher. That may not be easy in your area. I took lessons for about three or four months, and then found a time commitment a little too tight. I now self teach, but also not interested in becoming a classical player. For jazz, bluegrass, roots, etc. this has been fine for me and a hell of a lot of fun.

Good luck to you, all the advice on this forum is amazing and free! I've used it and abused it, but it is really helped me a lot. I play in 3 groups now and they all think I do pretty well. I'm glad they have such a high opinion of me.

 

[g-dude]

Get the best classical teacher you can find. Go! Now! Forget your ego. Forget what you think you want to become. Forget that you want to: "rock" "swing" "jam" "you can just teach yourself" "you don't want to be a serious play" etc etc. You need to give two years to this teacher. Do whatever they say. Practice every day. Thank me in two years.

I think there's a balance to be had.

If you want the absolute best quality for a given note, classical is probably the way to go.

Meanwhile, if you want the absolute best note to choose from when you're not playing a piece that is written out for you, jazz is the way to go.

 

[Lee Moses]

I think there's a balance to be had.

If you want the absolute best quality for a given note, classical is probably the way to go.

Meanwhile, if you want the absolute best note to choose from when you're not playing a piece that is written out for you, jazz is the way to go.

For a good technical foundation, it's always good to start out with "classical." That's what most of the jazz greats have done.

 

[Bruce Calin]

This topic keeps popping up. There's some good info here and the only recommendation I would add is if you're going to try to teach yourself make sure that whatever you do you don't hurt yourself. Aside from tender fingertips (I assume you're not bowing)if anything you're doing is painful or uncomfortable stop doing it. Also, you will develop bad habits if you self-teach. It's pretty much a given. Find a teacher or a player who can give you good direction to start with. The marker-no-marker issue will never end.

 

[g-dude]

For a good technical foundation, it's always good to start out with "classical." That's what most of the jazz greats have done.

I don't disagree that learning classical is beneficial. I just wouldn't suggest that someone go that route to the exclusion of other genres.

Intonation is one element of making music. Becoming a well rounded musician means working on that, as well as a lot of other elements, and leaning into your weak points until something else becomes a week point.

Interestingly enough, when you listen to jazz players playing arco, it definitely sounds different to classical players playing arco.

 

[Jason Sypher]

I'm just going to blanket disagree with those that think a classical teacher is unnecessary or overkill. (I just wrote and deleted my life story, you're welcome). Here's the thing. You never know where music will take you. You never know who is going to hire you or what you will become interested in. In twenty years you will change. When the big gig comes you need to be ready. And even if it doesn't you may ask things of yourself later and not have the ability to pull them off. I'm talking to people who want to be professionals. I think two years with a good teacher is not a lot to ask to learn how to play the double bass. After that you will have the basic tools and knowledge how to create a real sound. Life is funny. You may one day find yourself at Carnegie Hall as I did twice this year. There is no such thing as too extreme when it comes to making your living from music. You gotta start right and work your ass off if you are serious about doing this. Can't believe I'm one of those "get a teacher" guys now. I don't mean to sound d/ckish, I really don't, I'm just pretty clear at this point that I would have saved a ton of time if I didn't choose to play catch up my whole career instead of starting off on a firm footing.

 

[Bruce Calin]

Students with professional aspirations are generally pretty motivated in my experience. The ones who just want to "play for fun", especially adults or who come from playing another instrument, can be the toughest to convince to take the time to learn some good technique. I try to scare them with the "don't hurt yourself" talk. Sometimes it works.

 

[AGCurry]

I'm just going to blanket disagree with those that think a classical teacher is unnecessary or overkill. ... You never know where music will take you.

Yes. At age 24, I "taught myself" to play the double bass. At that age, imprinting habits was pretty easy. At age 70, I continue to have problems correcting the habits I taught myself all those years ago.

 

[g-dude]

I'm just going to blanket disagree with those that think a classical teacher is unnecessary or overkill. (I just wrote and deleted my life story, you're welcome). Here's the thing. You never know where music will take you. You never know who is going to hire you or what you will become interested in. In twenty years you will change. When the big gig comes you need to be ready. And even if it doesn't you may ask things of yourself later and not have the ability to pull them off. I'm talking to people who want to be professionals. I think two years with a good teacher is not a lot to ask to learn how to play the double bass. After that you will have the basic tools and knowledge how to create a real sound. Life is funny. You may one day find yourself at Carnegie Hall as I did twice this year. There is no such thing as too extreme when it comes to making your living from music. You gotta start right and work your ass off if you are serious about doing this. Can't believe I'm one of those "get a teacher" guys now. I don't mean to sound d/ckish, I really don't, I'm just pretty clear at this point that I would have saved a ton of time if I didn't choose to play catch up my whole career instead of starting off on a firm footing.

I don't think anyone said "unnecessary" or "overkill".

Vegetables are good for you, and important to eat. It doesn't mean you disregard the benefits of other foods.

 

[Jason Sypher]

I don't think anyone said "unnecessary" or "overkill".

Vegetables are good for you, and important to eat. It doesn't mean you disregard the benefits of other foods.

Not disregard. I learned a lot teaching myself and found unique sounds and expressions. But I would have been best served by at least two years of classical instruction. I definitely did it the hard way!

 

[g-dude]

Not disregard. I learned a lot teaching myself and found unique sounds and expressions. But I would have been best served by at least two years of classical instruction. I definitely did it the hard way!

Learning an instrument without lessons is like learning a foreign language without lessons. Totally possible, and you could end up being awesome...or awful.

Frankly, my vote is for lessons.

That being said, if you're planning on playing classical, you should find someone who has experience playing classical. If you're planning on playing jazz, it's good to find someone who has experience there.

In a perfect world, you'd find someone who has experience doing both - and they would supplement your focus area with some instruction in other approaches to music.

 

[garrett2]

On my limited view learning to play with the bow is crucial, and you really need a classical teacher for that. Not only because it makes you far more careful with your intonation. It also makes for a different level of left hand right hand coordination. I can attest without ever practicing my pizzicato on the bass it has improved by leaps just by improving my bowing.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

To save the old timers a bunch of redundant typing, here are a coupe of threads on the "Self taught vs. Get a Teacher" theme:

Anyone else mostly self taught? How much do you suck? ;)

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/self-taught-bassists-db-forum-thread.915474/

You're welcome!

 

[Jason Sypher]

Learning an instrument without lessons is like learning a foreign language without lessons. Totally possible, and you could end up being awesome...or awful.

Frankly, my vote is for lessons.

That being said, if you're planning on playing classical, you should find someone who has experience playing classical. If you're planning on playing jazz, it's good to find someone who has experience there.

In a perfect world, you'd find someone who has experience doing both - and they would supplement your focus area with some instruction in other approaches to music.

I used to think this as well. I did study with a jazz player for a few lessons in the beginning and he was a Streicher trained classical musician as well. I did get the basics from this guy. But later I wanted to bow all kinds of music from the lowest notes to the highest and was asked by people to do just that. These days I find that is more the norm than the exception. Doublebassists are expected to fill a lot more roles than even twenty years ago as the virtuosity has gone through the roof. This is so cool for the instrument and the musicians but (referring back to the OP) intonation is now just a starting point and it doesn't just have to be pretty good anymore, it has to be perfect. These are demands that can only be met with a good amount of classical instruction and if I were just starting out I'd commit myself to at least two years. Of course a person could play other things (along side) but I'd suggest getting this solid first. I'm not arguing with you at all, just clarifying my reasoning for such bold statements.

 

[neilG]

I won't bore anyone with MY ideas on the topic of learning intonation, but I will say that, IMNSHO, there is not much excuse for not having a teacher if you are serious about playing. Can't do in-person? Zoom it. Can't afford lessons? There are some of us who will teach for very little or nothing if we have a truly dedicated student.

 

[g-dude]

I won't bore anyone with MY ideas on the topic of learning intonation, but I will say that, IMNSHO, there is not much excuse for not having a teacher if you are serious about playing. Can't do in-person? Zoom it. Can't afford lessons? There are some of us who will teach for very little or nothing if we have a truly dedicated student.

When I was taking lessons - stopped last year due to job loss - it cost me less than what someone would pay to get Starbucks every day. It was beyond reasonable.

 

[MrLenny1]

I learned by ear. My teacher had me play
a major scale I.E. all on one string.
Good luck, it's a different beast.