Alright, So for me to practice my fretting and intonation, would it be more beneficial for me to mark the fingerboard and neck with tape so I know where the notes are, or should I just do it by ear and feel from the beginning?
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Double Bass Starting out on upright bass... Intonation
- Thread starter Eric Aquilina
- Start date
You probably want to post this on the DB side. At any rate, there are several discussions over there about this subject, with different people taking different sides. I'm personally in the "no visible marker" camp. Use a good hand shape and get the feel of how far every note is from the nut, at least in the lower positions.
No, markers are not recommended. What you need is to acquire the correct left hand technique. Taking lessons with a competent teacher is highly eecommended.
It can be helpful for beginners. Many violin and cello teachers use markers for beginning students.
If used under guidance of a teacher to help acquire a good handshape, markers can be helpful.
If used by a self taught player in order to avoid taking lessons, markers are more likely to become a crutch and hinder progress on the long term.
Avoid the markers. They may seem like training wheels but they really just create another obstacle to overcome.
Don’t practice without some sort of tonal reference, drone note, backing track, etc. At the very least keep a tuner on and check it frequently.
Don’t jump around either, stick to 1/2 and 1st position. Once you get those notes on lockdown you can move up one position at a time.
Don’t force practice. If your wrist or fingers are feeling burnt don’t let that compromise technique. Just give it a rest or stretch a bit and then get back at it. Endurance takes time to build.
A good teacher with in person lessons will help dramatically.
Don’t practice without some sort of tonal reference, drone note, backing track, etc. At the very least keep a tuner on and check it frequently.
Don’t jump around either, stick to 1/2 and 1st position. Once you get those notes on lockdown you can move up one position at a time.
Don’t force practice. If your wrist or fingers are feeling burnt don’t let that compromise technique. Just give it a rest or stretch a bit and then get back at it. Endurance takes time to build.
A good teacher with in person lessons will help dramatically.
I did the same thing some years ago and played in jazz bands until my hands couldn't function on double bass anymore. Two points:
1) Get the Simandl book and really work on your positions, so you don't need markers and you don't look at the fingerboard;
2) Get a good teacher who can help you understand what you are learning, and to get your fundamentals in order: posture, setting the end pin height, proper hand curvature to stop notes - it's called stopping instead of fretting - and redo from scratch your plucking hand technique to come off the sides of your fingers instead of the tips, all so you don't injure yourself, especially the tendons of your hand, due to the increased scale length - called mensure - and the greater tension of the strings.
This will be an expensive transition. The instrument itself will cost a few thou, and a setup will cost a few hundred if not included in the purchase price, because the health of the bass, including the integrity of the bass bar and position of the sound post, the condition of the top, etc., and any proper repairs (and every bass needs these repairs at some point) are critical. Good strings, which include the famous Thomastik-Infeld Spirocore Light gauge for jazz pizzacato, are now @$250-$275. But they last even longer than electric bass flatwounds.
Don't be tempted to get an inexpensive bass, as it will cause grief. Period. Go to, or at least call a good shop, tell them what you are wanting to do, and let them measure you, including your height, arm length, and hand size, to recommend a bass for you: Gollihur, Upton, Cincinnati Bass, Kansas City Bass, String Emporium, Los Angeles Bass Works, Bass Violin Shop, Lemur Music, Quantum Music, and a few others. If you are lucky enough to have a local music store in an area that has a good school orchestra program, you might find someone who actually knows about double bass, or not, since the school programs are usually about rental instruments and fixing the obvious student mishaps, not fine tuning a bass.
The only purpose of getting an inexpensive Asian Bass Shaped Object is if you want to also purchase the tools to essentially learn how to take it apart and put it back together, because they are not playable otherwise. And then you have as much invested as you would purchasing a good beginner bass set up and ready to go from any reputable retailer, with no assurance the bass will actually play and hold tune.
I hope this helps. Playing double bass, especially in a good jazz/swing band, is most rewarding. The first rehearsal I took my double bass to, the band immediately sounded better because they were playing with the bloom of the bass and really nailing the swing, instead of playing to the compressed push of an electric bass.
1) Get the Simandl book and really work on your positions, so you don't need markers and you don't look at the fingerboard;
2) Get a good teacher who can help you understand what you are learning, and to get your fundamentals in order: posture, setting the end pin height, proper hand curvature to stop notes - it's called stopping instead of fretting - and redo from scratch your plucking hand technique to come off the sides of your fingers instead of the tips, all so you don't injure yourself, especially the tendons of your hand, due to the increased scale length - called mensure - and the greater tension of the strings.
This will be an expensive transition. The instrument itself will cost a few thou, and a setup will cost a few hundred if not included in the purchase price, because the health of the bass, including the integrity of the bass bar and position of the sound post, the condition of the top, etc., and any proper repairs (and every bass needs these repairs at some point) are critical. Good strings, which include the famous Thomastik-Infeld Spirocore Light gauge for jazz pizzacato, are now @$250-$275. But they last even longer than electric bass flatwounds.
Don't be tempted to get an inexpensive bass, as it will cause grief. Period. Go to, or at least call a good shop, tell them what you are wanting to do, and let them measure you, including your height, arm length, and hand size, to recommend a bass for you: Gollihur, Upton, Cincinnati Bass, Kansas City Bass, String Emporium, Los Angeles Bass Works, Bass Violin Shop, Lemur Music, Quantum Music, and a few others. If you are lucky enough to have a local music store in an area that has a good school orchestra program, you might find someone who actually knows about double bass, or not, since the school programs are usually about rental instruments and fixing the obvious student mishaps, not fine tuning a bass.
The only purpose of getting an inexpensive Asian Bass Shaped Object is if you want to also purchase the tools to essentially learn how to take it apart and put it back together, because they are not playable otherwise. And then you have as much invested as you would purchasing a good beginner bass set up and ready to go from any reputable retailer, with no assurance the bass will actually play and hold tune.
I hope this helps. Playing double bass, especially in a good jazz/swing band, is most rewarding. The first rehearsal I took my double bass to, the band immediately sounded better because they were playing with the bloom of the bass and really nailing the swing, instead of playing to the compressed push of an electric bass.
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Strongly disagree with a lot of the price points in here. You can get a great entry level upright for $900 - $1,600. Sometimes these are already setup nicely, often they come with an adjustable bridge which makes setting it up free and easy to do at any time.
You can get a good set of strings for $100 - $120 and they’ll last forever.
This was recorded on a $1,200 Silver Creek. Came with a case, strings, bow (which wasn’t great), and adjustable bridge. Hasn’t needed to go to a luthier once and the stings are 10 years old at this point.
You can get a good set of strings for $100 - $120 and they’ll last forever.
This was recorded on a $1,200 Silver Creek. Came with a case, strings, bow (which wasn’t great), and adjustable bridge. Hasn’t needed to go to a luthier once and the stings are 10 years old at this point.
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I guess I'll be the one dissenting voice here. Some folks will go as far as telling you to practice in the dark, and learning to feel if you're in tune or not by how your bass vibrates. I think this is a load of BS, especially in live situations where EVERYTHING vibrates around you. Yes, learn proper technique with a teacher, practice with a tuner to develop that muscle memory and all that, but markers are totally ok. If Edgar Meyer uses them, so can you. Intonation will also depend how your fingers land on the fingerboard so markers are not a magic solution, but they can be useful, especially for those big position jumps. No shame in using them.
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To be fair, the vast majority of time this is with children.
It’s probably for the benefit of their parents!
If you're practicing every day for at least 30 minutes, the longest you'd need markers on the neck is about 2 weeks, just to get your sea legs. Then you won't need them anymore. (But if you only pick up the upright once every two weeks...)
The core issue is posture & position: you don't want to be turning your head to look at your fingerboard. You want to be looking straight ahead at your music stand.
A quick exercise like the "Frame Survey" will help you acclimate yourself to the bass's landmarks.
If you run through this exercise (just pizz is fine) when you first pick up the bass, you won't need the markers in a week or so:
(just the first three Rabbath positions are fine: up 'til about 9:34 in the video, before he switches to thumb position)
If you run through this exercise (just pizz is fine) when you first pick up the bass, you won't need the markers in a week or so:
(just the first three Rabbath positions are fine: up 'til about 9:34 in the video, before he switches to thumb position)
BobDeRosa
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Shen basses are a notable exception. Very well made, very playable.
I think you can put some tape markers on your neck. When the tapes have fallen off, you will have learnt. (Many string teachers use this for kids).
Markers or not, I'd suggest working on the Vance rep. Book 1 and Simandl at the same time. You will work from the scroll down and the heel up and getting that gray middle area in tune will come quicker. For someone who is already a musician who can tell do from re and mi by ear, I see no need for markers, but you do you.
I call Shen a real bass. I'm talking about those ABSO's that are on ebay and elsewhere.
