Static noise when output vol on 100% on bass - help! Advice?

[rtav]

Hello Tbers!

Last March I purchased a fantastic ESP LTD B1006 from a seller overseas. They had done some work on the bass, replacing the stock EMGs with some Nordy Big Single 6s, a brass adjustable nut, and replaced one of the volume knobs with a pickup selector. So it had a lot of work done.

I got it but noticed a weird thing. I usually crank all the knobs to 100% and play that way (adjusting the tone elsewhere along the path), but when I crank the output volume on this bass, I get a distinct crackle, like something is overdriven. In this first example I am playing into my FocusRite Scarlet 2i2, and at no point is the green input level going into the orange or red, and I'm hitting open strings (note the crackling noise with the lower strings, especially):



IN this example, I've turned the output volume down to around 70-80% and play the same open strings, then return the volume to 100% were it begins breaking up again:




My questions are:

What is perhaps causing this;

Would replacing the preamp fix the issue (and if so do you have any recommendations to pair with the Nordys), and;

Were I to get a new preamp, how do I find a preamp that will work with the knobs as they are (pickup selector switch, volume, etc.)?


Thank you for your wisdom - I'd love to open the volume up all the way on this bass and leave like on my Yammies, Carvin, etc.

 

[ctmullins]

Does it still have the stock three-band EQ? If so, you’re boosting the crap out of all three bands, so it’s no wonder you’re experiencing distortion. Bring those EQ knobs back to their neutral position and try again.

 

[rtav]

Does it still have the stock three-band EQ? If so, you’re boosting the crap out of all three bands, so it’s no wonder you’re experiencing distortion. Bring those EQ knobs back to their neutral position and try again.

Well, I've always, as you describe it, boosted "the crap" out of every bass I've had in 44 years, all of the time, with no added static, ever.

Every one of them always had everything all the way up - my 66 P Bass, my Steinies, my Jackson, my Yammies, my Carvin, my other ESP LTDs - not a single one of them, ever, had a setting on the bass that was designed to reproduce unwanted noise just by adjusting tone pots.

Never, not even once have I ever turned up a knob on my bass all the way at very, VERY low mixer output, heard added static and thought, "Static at very low volume in my headphones when the bass output pot is at 100%. Noise. These tone knobs, when abused by turning more than one of them them all the way up to produce maximum gain across a range of frequencies, are designed by engineers to deliberately add static noise to the signal and they should never be used on a bass to color a signal as static crap tone WILL result! Tone control is a privilege, not a right, I'm just wrong to not do it your way, the good way, the safe, uncolored, approved way, "off." I guess these filthy tone knobs shouldn't be allowed to boost/cut signal strength I mean what sane designer would build them so more than one at a time could be but must not be used, I guess I should RTFM FFS..."

If every bass I've ever owned in more than 4 decades did this with all tone knobs at full I would NOT have bothered asking the question (I would rather think a bass should be built to handle it's own output without distorting and adding obvious noise, but maybe it's beyond the grasp of modern science).

I'll assume you're asking in good faith and not just doing a "go away kid you're bothering me" dismissive attitude.

So again, I want to have everything WIDE open all of the time on this modified bass 100% volume, both pickups, all tone up 100%, just like every other bass I have EVERY owned, and enjoy full output from "boosting the crap" without the unwanted noise that occurs even going straight into my DAW at very low input and output. Without knowing the preamp that is installed in it now, are there any preamps in your experience that work really well with the Nordy Big Singles?

BTW, If you think the tone is crap from boosting all tone controls + volume to 100%, you are welcome to drop in on my channel and hear the crap tone (static noise) that is evidently supposed to happen when some idiot cranks ALL of the controls to 100% ALL of the time (the channel link is in the signature).

I was asking for help, but if no one has suggestions as to what may be happening ("the signal from the pickups may be too hot for the preamp," or "I have Nordy big singles and a ____ preamp that sounds amazing,") that's ok, too.

Thanks

 

[dwizum]

With all due respect, you just received a genuinely helpful post within minutes of asking for help, and your response was to write a page long passive aggressive rant about it. Not exactly a good way to set yourself up for others to jump into the thread and try to help.

Whether it makes sense for your playing style or not, there are a lot of EQ preamps out there that will overdrive easily if all three EQ bands are turned all the way up while the bass is at full volume. You're overdriving the preamp itself, which is why you're hearing distortion even without your USB interface showing that it's clipping. This is a somewhat common phenomenon on simpler EQ preamps or those based on lower-performance chips, since they just don't have the headroom to allow for both good base gain and also good boost/cut ranges on the EQ channels. Since most people tend to consider flat EQ a good "starting point" instead of everything all the way up, EQ designers prioritize EQ range over ultimate max gain. This results in a preamp that can overdrive itself if you happen to have a hot pickup signal and play with everything turned all the way up. In other words, the EQ is designed for flexibility under the conditions that most people commonly use, versus being designed to never have any possible settings that sound bad. It's really hard to design a preamp that's highly flexible AND sounds good no matter where you turn the knobs.

The usual solution is to just turn the knobs down (at least some of them). If that's not something you're interested in doing, the next best option (in terms of least cost/least time involved) would be to lower the pickups (which has the same effect as turning the volume down, but is more permanent than turning a knob). If you're not interested in that either, it's hard to help, as none of us can say for sure if a given preamp will or won't distort based on your playing style, string choice, pickup height, and other variables. The best way to find something like that would be to look at specs and choose something with less gain on each channel, and/or something with an 18v power supply and a modern design, as those factors will help you end up with something less likely to overdrive itself.

All that said, if you're literally just going to always play with all of the knobs all the way up, it might make sense to skip the selection of a typical EQ preamp and instead replace your current electronics with a simple active buffer. Most buffers come with a trimpot meant to adjust gain, which stays hidden in the control cavity. An example of this kind of buffer preamp would be the Bartolini AGB/918-2. You could wire it with a kill switch (or a volume knob) to allow yourself to turn the bass on and off, at least. Or just default back to passive controls and then you won't have anything on the bass to even over drive.

 

[ctmullins]

Thanks @dwizum ! Seems like you’re always around to put my thoughts into much more eloquent, and more deeply explanatory, words than I ever do.

@rtav , there are lots of people who grew up playing passive instruments, and, because a passive circuit is always subtractive, developed the habit of diming all of their knobs in order to “get the most” out of their instrument. Sometimes that approach gets carried over when encountering an active instrument, just out of sheer habit. That’s okay; we don’t know what we don’t know, but when you begin to realize the fundamental differences between an active tone stack and a passive one, you can learn how to maximize each in their own way.

Also, I’m sure the designers of your LTD did, in fact, design the electronics package to work well as a system. But because your stock pickups were replaced with Nordstrands, you no longer have a stock system. Modding can be fun, and can improve an instrument, but when you color outside the lines like that, you can’t really blame the manufacturer when your new mix of components behave differently. That’s when you really need to understand, at a deeper level, how each component in the mix can affect the overall circuit.

Anyway, your recording indicates an overdriven preamp, because you have everything boosted to the max. One possible solution would be to switch to a pair of 9V batteries wired in series, for an 18V power supply. But - and this is important - you’ll need to make sure that the preamp is safe to run at 18V. Most quality aftermarket preamps are happy at 18V, but I don’t know exactly what you have in your ESP.

Or, just yank it and install a Nordstrand preamp.

 

[rtav]

Thanks @dwizum ! Seems like you’re always around to put my thoughts into much more eloquent, and more deeply explanatory, words than I ever do.

@rtav , there are lots of people who grew up playing passive instruments, and, because a passive circuit is always subtractive, developed the habit of diming all of their knobs in order to “get the most” out of their instrument. Sometimes that approach gets carried over when encountering an active instrument, just out of sheer habit. That’s okay; we don’t know what we don’t know, but when you begin to realize the fundamental differences between an active tone stack and a passive one, you can learn how to maximize each in their own way.

Also, I’m sure the designers of your LTD did, in fact, design the electronics package to work well as a system. But because your stock pickups were replaced with Nordstrands, you no longer have a stock system. Modding can be fun, and can improve an instrument, but when you color outside the lines like that, you can’t really blame the manufacturer when your new mix of components behave differently. That’s when you really need to understand, at a deeper level, how each component in the mix can affect the overall circuit.

Anyway, your recording indicates an overdriven preamp, because you have everything boosted to the max. One possible solution would be to switch to a pair of 9V batteries wired in series, for an 18V power supply. But - and this is important - you’ll need to make sure that the preamp is safe to run at 18V. Most quality aftermarket preamps are happy at 18V, but I don’t know exactly what you have in your ESP.

Or, just yank it and install a Nordstrand preamp.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

You are correct in that the "X" factor is the preamp because it is unknown. I suspect that that the modder who did the work did not factor in the difference between the stock pickups and the (likely "hotter") Nordys and whatever preamp is in there. That's my going hypothesis, but with the unknown factor of the preamp it is impossible to say with certainty.

Thanks again

 

[ctmullins]

Forgot to ask, and hopefully you already tried this, but - fresh battery?

 

[rtav]

Forgot to ask, and hopefully you already tried this, but - fresh battery?

Oh yeah - Twice. Excellent question though (if it could only be so simple).

 

[rtav]

With all due respect, you just received a genuinely helpful post within minutes of asking for help, and your response was to write a page long passive aggressive rant about it. Not exactly a good way to set yourself up for others to jump into the thread and try to help.

Whether it makes sense for your playing style or not, there are a lot of EQ preamps out there that will overdrive easily if all three EQ bands are turned all the way up while the bass is at full volume. You're overdriving the preamp itself, which is why you're hearing distortion even without your USB interface showing that it's clipping. This is a somewhat common phenomenon on simpler EQ preamps or those based on lower-performance chips, since they just don't have the headroom to allow for both good base gain and also good boost/cut ranges on the EQ channels. Since most people tend to consider flat EQ a good "starting point" instead of everything all the way up, EQ designers prioritize EQ range over ultimate max gain. This results in a preamp that can overdrive itself if you happen to have a hot pickup signal and play with everything turned all the way up. In other words, the EQ is designed for flexibility under the conditions that most people commonly use, versus being designed to never have any possible settings that sound bad. It's really hard to design a preamp that's highly flexible AND sounds good no matter where you turn the knobs.

The usual solution is to just turn the knobs down (at least some of them). If that's not something you're interested in doing, the next best option (in terms of least cost/least time involved) would be to lower the pickups (which has the same effect as turning the volume down, but is more permanent than turning a knob). If you're not interested in that either, it's hard to help, as none of us can say for sure if a given preamp will or won't distort based on your playing style, string choice, pickup height, and other variables. The best way to find something like that would be to look at specs and choose something with less gain on each channel, and/or something with an 18v power supply and a modern design, as those factors will help you end up with something less likely to overdrive itself.

All that said, if you're literally just going to always play with all of the knobs all the way up, it might make sense to skip the selection of a typical EQ preamp and instead replace your current electronics with a simple active buffer. Most buffers come with a trimpot meant to adjust gain, which stays hidden in the control cavity. An example of this kind of buffer preamp would be the Bartolini AGB/918-2. You could wire it with a kill switch (or a volume knob) to allow yourself to turn the bass on and off, at least. Or just default back to passive controls and then you won't have anything on the bass to even over drive.

I appreciate your respect, but really just telling someone that "you're not doing it right. Dime the knobs and let us know" - is that helpful? By who's standards? What if I don't want to turn my knobs like that? What if I think that sound sucks? Am I doomed? How is that possibly helpful, specifically? So I dime my knobs and get back to the thread - does that solve anything? No. I do not like that sound, I do not like the tone and still have the problem. How was it fixed? Tell me, please.

BTW, I've been jumped on by TBers for everything from playing above the fifth fret, insisting that 6 string basses are real basses, and mixing drivers. But telling someone "change your tone and then you can get help (or relief)" isn't help - it's a blow off pure and simple. Describe the content of the comment as you will ("genuinely helpful") but it is a dismissive stance to my request for help, and your dismissive comment earned the rebuttal I gave it.

BTW, thanks for the real help. Im on the same line with the inevitable preamp change out.

 

[ctmullins]

When you watch TV, do you jam the volume all the way up to 100?

When you scramble an egg, do you whack the burner all the way to High?

When you drive to the grocery store, do you keep the gas pedal mashed to the floor?

When you water your flowers, do you open the faucet full blast?

 

[dwizum]

I really don't want to risk this descending into an argument that adds no value, but I don't understand your aggressiveness towards that post. I came here to be helpful - but it's hard to be helpful when you don't quite understand the person you're trying to help. That was my motivation for calling you out, so to speak. You seem to have some fundamental problem with the fact that turning all the knobs up causes the bass to overdrive. That's not inherently an unusual thing (especially once pickups have been adjusted or replaced) so it seems pretty sensible, and helpful, for someone to say "turning the knobs all the way up causes that problem. Try turning them down." I'm ok with agreeing to disagree at this point though because it seems the discussion has moved on.

If you like this preamp other than the overdrive when it's pegged, what about just lowering the pickups? Might save you the time and money of replacing an otherwise-good preamp (especially considering we can't know for certain that a new preamp won't also overdrive when it's pegged).

 

[rtav]

I really don't want to risk this descending into an argument that adds no value, but I don't understand your aggressiveness towards that post. I came here to be helpful - but it's hard to be helpful when you don't quite understand the person you're trying to help. That was my motivation for calling you out, so to speak. You seem to have some fundamental problem with the fact that turning all the knobs up causes the bass to overdrive. That's not inherently an unusual thing (especially once pickups have been adjusted or replaced) so it seems pretty sensible, and helpful, for someone to say "turning the knobs all the way up causes that problem. Try turning them down." I'm ok with agreeing to disagree at this point though because it seems the discussion has moved on.

If you like this preamp other than the overdrive when it's pegged, what about just lowering the pickups? Might save you the time and money of replacing an otherwise-good preamp (especially considering we can't know for certain that a new preamp won't also overdrive when it's pegged).

That’s an excellent idea, a real bell ringer. I will check the string height today. If that’s not the issue there really isn’t anything else to do but swap out the preamp.

Thanks!

 

[Thumpin6string]

Sure don't want to have you get ticked off with me too, but.... I have played active basses for over 25 years. My 6 string has active Duncan soapbars and a Duncan 3 band preamp running at 18V. Most if not all basses with preamps have bass, mid and treble pots with center detents. Not sure how yours is setup. The center detent is "flat" and you can either boost or cut several DBs from there. I run my volume "dimed", but the EQ is set flat with slight boosts or cuts to taste. If I "dimed" all my knobs, not only would it overdrive the preamp, but it would cause clipping on my amp. I honestly don't think it will matter which preamp you install, if you dime the EQ knobs, you'll overdrive it. Maybe get rid of the pre and go passive? The other possibility is that whoever modded the controls on the preamp caused the problem. Hope you get it figured out.

 

[John S Hargett]

Thanks @dwizum ! Seems like you’re always around to put my thoughts into much more eloquent, and more deeply explanatory, words than I ever do.

@rtav , there are lots of people who grew up playing passive instruments, and, because a passive circuit is always subtractive, developed the habit of diming all of their knobs in order to “get the most” out of their instrument. Sometimes that approach gets carried over when encountering an active instrument, just out of sheer habit. That’s okay; we don’t know what we don’t know, but when you begin to realize the fundamental differences between an active tone stack and a passive one, you can learn how to maximize each in their own way.

Also, I’m sure the designers of your LTD did, in fact, design the electronics package to work well as a system. But because your stock pickups were replaced with Nordstrands, you no longer have a stock system. Modding can be fun, and can improve an instrument, but when you color outside the lines like that, you can’t really blame the manufacturer when your new mix of components behave differently. That’s when you really need to understand, at a deeper level, how each component in the mix can affect the overall circuit.

Anyway, your recording indicates an overdriven preamp, because you have everything boosted to the max. One possible solution would be to switch to a pair of 9V batteries wired in series, for an 18V power supply. But - and this is important - you’ll need to make sure that the preamp is safe to run at 18V. Most quality aftermarket preamps are happy at 18V, but I don’t know exactly what you have in your ESP.

Or, just yank it and install a Nordstrand preamp.

THIS!!!
I would say to put in a fresh nine volt. All of my active basses that I have owned have to some degree, have started distorting when battery was getting low. This was true on both active pick ups or just active equalizer . Also noticed when cable jack starts to get worn and loose and start getting reduced signal as if there is a massive compression going on. hope that helps. Thanks for the question. I dont know anything other than my situations I experienced. I usually only adjust the tone cut / boost dials if Im having problem with that freq range not getting through I may boost it a tiny bit.

 

[Jackcrow]

I had a bass with EMG pickups and preamp that was overdriving the preamp quite a bit on 9 volts when I boosted the bass. Switched to 18 volts and the issue was gone. I'm guessing the output of the pickups is a bit much for the (likely) stock preamp.

 

[jdjk7]

Hello Tbers!

Last March I purchased a fantastic ESP LTD B1006 from a seller overseas. They had done some work on the bass, replacing the stock EMGs with some Nordy Big Single 6s, a brass adjustable nut, and replaced one of the volume knobs with a pickup selector. So it had a lot of work done.

I got it but noticed a weird thing. I usually crank all the knobs to 100% and play that way (adjusting the tone elsewhere along the path), but when I crank the output volume on this bass, I get a distinct crackle, like something is overdriven. In this first example I am playing into my FocusRite Scarlet 2i2, and at no point is the green input level going into the orange or red, and I'm hitting open strings (note the crackling noise with the lower strings, especially):



IN this example, I've turned the output volume down to around 70-80% and play the same open strings, then return the volume to 100% were it begins breaking up again:




My questions are:

What is perhaps causing this;

Would replacing the preamp fix the issue (and if so do you have any recommendations to pair with the Nordys), and;

Were I to get a new preamp, how do I find a preamp that will work with the knobs as they are (pickup selector switch, volume, etc.)?


Thank you for your wisdom - I'd love to open the volume up all the way on this bass and leave like on my Yammies, Carvin, etc.

I've owned/played a handful of active basses, mostly from the 90s, including a Carvin, and they all did this to some degree. I'm honestly surprised that you've owned active basses for so long and NOT encountered this.

I also agree with the other post that cranking all the knobs to max is not the intended use of active EQs in basses. You are obviously welcome to do so if it works for you, but the takeaway is that since it's not the intended use, you shouldn't just expect it to work like that on every active bass you try. I'm fairly certain that in that case you really have to make sure the instrument works for you. In that case, high headroom preamps are what you're going to need.

 

[Killing Floor]

Not having that exact preamp I can’t say for sure. But a lot of hotter preamps have a trim pot on the board. Is there a screw pot?

 

[rtav]

Not having that exact preamp I can’t say for sure. But a lot of hotter preamps have a trim pot on the board. Is there a screw pot?

Great idea; I’ll check. Thanks!

 

[Killing Floor]

Great idea; I’ll check. Thanks!

My East pres have one. It’s not obvious unless you look for it. And in that case the bass is boost and the highs are boost/cut so I was getting a buzz that wasn’t a good kind of dirt until I dug around. Good luck. Obviously free to try.

 

[arbiterusa]

I appreciate your respect, but really just telling someone that "you're not doing it right. Dime the knobs and let us know" - is that helpful? By who's standards? What if I don't want to turn my knobs like that? What if I think that sound sucks? Am I doomed? How is that possibly helpful, specifically?

Tells us from what end of the signal chain your crackling is coming from, is how that would help. If knobs dimed=crackling, and knobs center=no crackling, it's your preamp.

And with that, you're on my blocked list.