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Steely Dan

#21
Bard2dbone said:
Was 'All Around My Hat' by Steeleye Span? That's a guess. I never heard any of their stuff. I just always thought their name reminded me of Steely Dan.
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The only thing I can recall by Steeleye Span is "Stuck In The Middle With You".
I agree, both names are similar. IIRC, both bands came out roughly the same time; I seem to remember reading about both back when I bought Circus magazine.
 
#22
JimK said:
The only thing I can recall by Steeleye Span is "Stuck In The Middle With You".
I agree, both names are similar. IIRC, both bands came out roughly the same time; I seem to remember reading about both back when I bought Circus magazine.
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That was "Steeler's Wheel"!! :hmm:

Steeleye Span were a UK folk/rock band - who fused a rock rhythm section with English folk!! A bit like a more commercial "Fairport Convention"...... ;)

Their main asset was the singing voice of Maddy Prior...?
 
#24
Yup - I find all cover bands pointless and have never been to a gig like that in all my life!!

The only time I remember, was being at college in the student union bar and a "Police" cover band had been booked - they were absolutely terrible and every song was played with a ponderous rock feel - even in the Reggae sections!! :rollno:

But I just cannot see the point of cover bands playing other people's tunes note for note - why not just listen to the CDs? :confused:

OK - take a SD tune as a starting point for Jazz improvisation - great , love it - like Christian McBride's version of "Aja" - wonderful!

But you've got be bringing something of yourself to the performance or to me there is no point, whatsoever! No different to Karaoke IMO ....:hmm:
 
#25
Bruce Lindfield said:
Yup - I find all cover bands pointless and have never been to a gig like that in all my life!!

The only time I remember, was being at college in the student union bar and a "Police" cover band had been booked - they were absolutely terrible and every song was played with a ponderous rock feel - even in the Reggae sections!! :rollno:

But I just cannot see the point of cover bands playing other people's tunes note for note - why not just listen to the CDs? :confused:

OK - take a SD tune as a starting point for Jazz improvisation - great , love it - like Christian McBride's version of "Aja" - wonderful!

But you've got be bringing something of yourself to the performance or to me there is no point, whatsoever! No different to Karaoke IMO ....:hmm:
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Amen to all of that. :D :D
 
#26
Bruce Lindfield said:
That was "Steeler's Wheel"!! :hmm:

Steeleye Span were a UK folk/rock band - who fused a rock rhythm section with English folk!! A bit like a more commercial "Fairport Convention"...... ;)

Their main asset was the singing voice of Maddy Prior...?
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I deserve to be flogged for that!

So now my question is this-
Since the names are so similar, was someone pulling a Beau Brummels manuever?
 
#28
Bruce Lindfield said:
Steeleye Span were a UK folk/rock band - who fused a rock rhythm section with English folk!! A bit like a more commercial "Fairport Convention"...... ;)

Their main asset was the singing voice of Maddy Prior...?
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This actually sounds like something I would like, but I never heard them. Are any of them still around?
 
#29
bassicinstinct said:
Am I in a minority in thinking that Becker and Fagen have been a seminal influence on modern music for over 30 years?

Is it "sacrilege" to tamper with the arrangements of songs which have been hailed as classics for decades?
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well they were seminal influence on me personally - I absolutely love Steely Dan, but it's hard to quantify how influential they were on modern music in general... I can think of a dozen artists who were probably more influential on modern music... most of them nowhere near as excellent as the Dan :)

I don't see why you can't change the arrangements of the songs... I've read a lot of interviews with WB and DF, and I don't recall them ever expressing the opinion that people should do that... and even if they did you should do it anyway :) I bet they never ran their arrangements by the composers before they did East St Louis Toodle Oo or (DF) Ruby Baby
 
#30
Bruce Lindfield said:
But I just cannot see the point of cover bands playing other people's tunes note for note - why not just listen to the CDs? :confused:
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some people get entertainment from hearing songs they know played live... that's all it is.. nothing artistic, just an element of some people's idea of a good night out... the people who are jumping up and down, sloshing beer about, singing along and having the time of their life generally wouldn't behave the same way if you just played them a CD...

just entertainment... a bit proletarian and vulgar, but there u go
 
#31
JimK said:
I deserve to be flogged for that!

So now my question is this-
Since the names are so similar, was someone pulling a Beau Brummels manuever?
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I think if we're talking about Steeleye Span and Steely Dan - then they hadn't heard of each other and most people in the US -as the Bard testifies - had never heard of the English folk/rock movement - which is where the name comes from - traditional English folk music

So - Becker and Fagan wouldn't have heard of Steeleye Span and there's no doubt they thought that picking a name out of William Boroughs would have given them a unique handle!! ;)

So - the question is whether Maddy Prior et al had heard of Steely Dan?

Fairport Covention's official website tells you that : "despite the triumph of Liege And Lief, founder member Ashley Hutchings quit to form Steeleye Span in 1970."

SS have disbanded and have no official website, but a German folk site, has this explanation :

Steeleye Span: The Name of the Game
The liner notes of the album Hark! The Village Wait include the acknowledgement “We'd like to thank..... Martin Carthy for our name”.

Additionally, Maddy Prior tells in the sleeve notes of Spanning the Years:
“[Martin Carthy] had suggested the name Steeleye Span to Tim [Hart] late one evening while staying at Tim's family home, The Vicarage in St. Albans. The name comes from a Lincolnshire ballad called Horkstow Grange and is a story of an argument between John Bowlin and Jon Span, whose nickname was Steeleye.”

Horkstow Grange recounts a fight between a tyricannal farm foreman named John Bowlin, who came to blows one day with an old waggoner named J.S. “Old Steeleye” Span - and came out the worse for wear. Supposedly, Span himself wrote the lyrics, and set it to a version of Andrew Rose. It was collected by Percy Grainger from George Gouldthorpe of Goxhill, North Lincolnshire in 1905.

The song can be found on Shirley Collins' album Adieu to Old England, on the Home Service album Alright Jack, from the singing of George Gouldthorpe, recorded in 1908 by Percy Grainger, on Unto Brigg Fair, and on Steeleye Span's album Horkstow Grange The verses are:

In Horkstow Grange there lived an old miser
You all do know him as I have heard say
It's him on his man that was named John Bowlin
They fell out one market day

With a blackthorn stick old Steeleye struck him
As of times he had threatened before
John Bowlin turned round all in a passion
And knocked old Steeleye into the floor

Old Steeleye Span he was filled with John Bowlin
It happened to be on a market day
Old Steeleye swore with all his vengeance
He would swear his life away

Pity them who see him suffer
Pity poor old Steeleye Span
John Bowlin's deeds they will be remembered
Pity poor old Steeleye Span
Pity poor old Steeleye Span

See also Richard Hollis' Steeleye Span Sheet Music Page for the score of Horkstow Grange.
 
#32
Bard2dbone:

They were kind of part of the same movement as Fairport Convention and the like. I think they broke up years ago although I do seek to recall some reunion concerts a little while ago. Personally, I think Fairport were infinitely better at what they did. All Around My Hat, Daytrip To Bangor etc were truly excruciating IMHO.

cowsgomoo:

:D :D

I think you've hit the nail square on the head there. I almost edited my original post to use some word other than seminal, but I couldn't come up with anything better. :( Like you, they have influenced me in a huge way for over 30 years but, yes there are MANY far less talented (IMHO) acts who have been more "influential" in the true sense of the word. Without wishing to bring pestilence upon myself ( :eek: :eek: ), I'm thinking of the likes of U2, REM etc etc. The list goes on really, doesn't it? :scowl: :scowl:

I'm picturing DF running his Ruby arrangement by Leiber and Stoller and it really does make me smile :D :D Good point though. I think "fans" such as you and I might possibly treat SD songs with a little more inappropriate reverence than either Don or Walt would think they deserved. ;) ;)
 
#33
cowsgomoo said:
some people get entertainment from hearing songs they know played live... that's all it is.. nothing artistic, just an element of some people's idea of a good night out... the people who are jumping up and down, sloshing beer about, singing along and having the time of their life generally wouldn't behave the same way if you just played them a CD...

just entertainment... a bit proletarian and vulgar, but there u go
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Well I can see the point of of beer, fun and singing....;)

So, I was on a walking holiday in Halkidiki (Greece) last September - with a load of other "middle-aged" people and in the evening we would sit at bars on the seafront chatting,relaxing etc.

Then after sufficient beer was consumed we all started singing songs from the 60s that we all knew and a great time was had by all - but the bar had nothing - no music system, no band - just good beer, good weather, view of the sea and lots of beer....:)

Now, as I say, I can see the point of that!

But I can't see the point of agonising about what the exact note was, that Walter Becker played on beat 3 of the 4th bar of the chorus to "............." song ..................I bet he can't even remember himself and cares less!! ;)
 
#34
Sounds like my kind of holiday. :D :D


You're absolutely right too on the "note perfect" issue (IMHO).

I did a pro stint of 5 shows a week for about a year with a U2 tribute (yeah, I know :eek: :eek: :eek: ) and playing Adam Clayton's "basslines" that frequently for that long is severely detrimental to your (well, MY) mental health. Pointless too as all our audiences tended to be preoccupied with alcohol and members of the opposite sex anyway. :p :p

Ho hum. :confused: :confused:
 
#36
jive1 said:
If heard there was a 4 piece that did Steely Dan covers, I'd check it out just to see how they would pull it off. Playing SD in and of itself is ambitious, let alone only a 4 piece that will be playing parts that were played by greats like Stan Getz, Larry Carlton, Chuck Rainey, etc.. Even if there is no guitar player, you can still pull it off since SD wasn't what I consider to be a "Guitar Band". Though I'm curious as to how you guys do "Reelin in the Years".

I'm not a purist, but since Steely Dan rarely played out live in their heyday let alone now, you're sort of the only game in town. If someone's jonesin for some live SD, you're it. Talk about a monopoly. The fact that you can't pull it off without some considerable skill, further solidifies your niche.

On a side note, the only Steely Dan tune I ever played out live was Bodhisattva. It was a tough song, and it's one of the easist they have. Tried other tunes, but it was hard to get the other musicians engaged enough learn them. The fact that you have that, and doing it earns an A in my gradebook.

If I'm ever across the pond (hopefully this summer), I'll have o check you guys out.
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I've played SD stuff in a trio. It's all about the arrangement.
 
#38
I remember and have enjoyed several British folkies and/or folk/rock types, but somehow never have heard Steeleye Span. How weird is that?

I really liked Fairport Convention, Silly Wizard, Pentangle, and a few others whose names I am blanking on right now.My favorite place in the world is a folk music festival in the Texas hill country, the Kerrville Folk Festival. I met my wife because of it. My daughter was probably conceived there. I volunteer for their first aid crew every year. I like to think I am 'steeped in the lore' of folk music. So how have I never heard these people? :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
#39
Bard2dbone said:
I remember and have enjoyed several British folkies and/or folk/rock types, but somehow never have heard Steeleye Span. How weird is that?

I really liked Fairport Convention, Silly Wizard, Pentangle, and a few others whose names I am blanking on right now.My favorite place in the world is a folk music festival in the Texas hill country, the Kerrville Folk Festival. I met my wife because of it. My daughter was probably conceived there. I volunteer for their first aid crew every year. I like to think I am 'steeped in the lore' of folk music. So how have I never heard these people? :confused: :confused: :confused:
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That is indeed quite scary. Don't know how you've managed to miss out on The 'Span ( ;) ;) )

Maybe you owe it to yourself to check 'em out? Don't take that as a recommendation though :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
#40
I liked Steeleye Span. Their middle period more than their very early or very late period, but they did some good stuff (Below the Salt, Parcel of Rogues, and Commoner's Crown, for example). I met Maddy Prior at a festival I played in Denmark about 10 years ago, and she was very nice; a couple of the other bandmembers weren't as nice.

They could not be less like Steely Dan musically. Closer to Stealer's Wheel, if anything.:D
 

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