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Sting: Isolated bass track on "Message in a Bottle"

#21
Walking on the Moon, when played in perfect time, sounds downright awful.

Remember - he played trombone, and its very common for singers and lead instruments (esp jazz soloists) to deliberately 'push' or 'drag' the beat for effect. So why can't a bass player do it (when done tastefully)?? Bass is effectively a lead instrument in this context.
 
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#22
WJGreer said:
Agreed, Message in a Bottle was on Regatta De Blanc, though.

Listening to isolated tracks does make me feel better about myself, although maybe not in the way you meant. I hear lots of imperfection and also lots of emotion. Also, almost always more overdrive than I expected. Then I listen to some of the stuff I've recorded and I hear myself trying to be needle-clean and perfect with every part. In the final product, it really doesn't sound as good that way, somehow.

So, these isolated mixes give me hope, maybe I should drop the leash and let the rock roll.
Click to expand...


I agree.

I obsess so much about getting the timing absolutely perfect and for each note to be always played consistently (volume an all) and then you listen to isolated tracks and realise even the "pros" don't get it perfect (to be fair, Sting was never a bass virtuoso, he's a technically average player who wrote very tasty bass lines). This video led me to Duran Duran Rio's Isolated bass track, a bassline i've played a lot, and that i felt i never played as well as Taylor. But listening to the isolated track, i feel i might have (on a few note he's a bit ahead) . It's not a diss on him. It just makes me feel better about myself and makes me feel i might sometimes set a too high and unreasonable standard for myself. No player is a robot. At least not many of them anyway..its possible a very small % always gets it right and are metronome perfect, but the rest doesn't. It's unreasonable to expect perfection, especially on a live take.

I remember a few months back people nitpicking at Steve Harris isolated live track. I'm not a maiden fan, i dont even own a record so theres no bias in defending him, but first of all, guy is playing live so its probably a given the tempo fluctuated, and second, he's in maiden, they're about putting on a show. You're gonna nitpick because the guy can't be 100% perfect while he's walking all over the stage and entertaining a crowd? You're missing the point. If i can only tell someone is making mistakes or being sloppy with an isolated track, then as far as i'm concerned, they played it right.
 
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#24
richntiff said:
I love these 'wow listen to how crappy this isolated bass track is' threads. I love the Police. I don't listen to them much anymore, but Synchronicity is one of the best albums ever recorded. Iso a bass track with no context, how can one even comment on that? Is it to make you feel better about yourself?
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I agree. The question is, why does Sting's bass track work?
He's reacting to a couple other musicians, who aren't in perfect time to begin with. There's really no way his bass track, on this particular song, would sound right isolated.
 
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#25
Up the dose said:
How are these isolated tracks obtained? Is there ever any question to the authenticity of these tracks?
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They're usually ripped from Rock Band tracks, or like sources. They're the real deal.

And sometimes, what Rock Band has can be slightly different from the released album, which makes things interesting. Rush's Moving Pictures, for example, has some different vocal and bass takes that weren't in the final album mix.
 
#26
OldDirtyBassist said:
I agree. The question is, why does Sting's bass track work?
He's reacting to a couple other musicians, who aren't in perfect time to begin with. There's really no way his bass track, on this particular song, would sound right isolated.
Click to expand...

For kicks... get a free copy of Audacity.

Download ALL the individual isolated tracks for this song.

Import each isolated sound file into Audacity.

Be The Mixer.

Lots of FUN!

You'll learn how these things work as parts of a WHOLE.
 
#30
Milk said:
I agree.

I obsess so much about getting the timing absolutely perfect and for each note to be always played consistently (volume an all) and then you listen to isolated tracks and realise even the "pros" don't get it perfect (to be fair, Sting was never a bass virtuoso, he's a technically average player who wrote very tasty bass lines). This video led me to Duran Duran Rio's Isolated bass track, a bassline i've played a lot, and that i felt i never played as well as Taylor. But listening to the isolated track, i feel i might have (on a few note he's a bit ahead) . It's not a diss on him. It just makes me feel better about myself and makes me feel i might sometimes set a too high and unreasonable standard for myself. No player is a robot. At least not many of them anyway..its possible a very small % always gets it right and are metronome perfect, but the rest doesn't. It's unreasonable to expect perfection, especially on a live take.

I remember a few months back people nitpicking at Steve Harris isolated live track. I'm not a maiden fan, i dont even own a record so theres no bias in defending him, but first of all, guy is playing live so its probably a given the tempo fluctuated, and second, he's in maiden, they're about putting on a show. You're gonna nitpick because the guy can't be 100% perfect while he's walking all over the stage and entertaining a crowd? You're missing the point. If i can only tell someone is making mistakes or being sloppy with an isolated track, then as far as i'm concerned, they played it right.
Click to expand...

I agree with the first part of your post.

the part about harris I disagree with; those isolated tracks of him were bad period.
 
#31
Jazz Ad said:
The whole dynamics of the band was in this.
Sting pushing forward while Copeland was pulling back.
It makes their music sound like a strange mix of reggae and rock.
They are, indeed a legendary band and one of the best.
Click to expand...

Although this track seems to say otherwise, I think you actually have it backwards. Stewart rushed a lot during live shows, and it was Sting who was constantly trying to pull him back so he could actually sing the words.
 
#33
chris merrill said:
Sounds pretty rad!
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Yep. Most people are amazed at how "sloppy" and grungy a bassline is when soloed. But that gives it a lot of character in the mix.

"Warmth" "Soul" "Edge" "Groove" A lot of that stuff come from the imperfections.

Recording myself, I used to try and pick very gently so I wouldn't have to use much compression....because I "hated" it. Now, I just go for a feel, and use the compressor in the final stage to even things out if they get too out of hand.
 
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#34
jmattbassplaya said:
Although this track seems to say otherwise, I think you actually have it backwards. Stewart rushed a lot during live shows, and it was Sting who was constantly trying to pull him back so he could actually sing the words.
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Exactly.

I can't possibly recall how many times I've listened to this song. Regatta was the first album of theirs I owned, and I quite literally wore it out. As familiar as I am with the sound of Sting's bass on "Message", I was surprised to hear that much overdrive. Shows that those engineers knew what it took to make the whole mix sound good.
 
#36
I've done dozens of studio sessions with various bands and invariably cringe at my timing, my technique, my tone or sometimes all three when the bass track is soloed in the studio monitors. Seemed to go against the grain of all those hours of practising scales and arpeggios against a metronome, and being really fussy about intonation when playing fretless, and certainly sounded worse to me than I hear when I'm practising.

But, most of the time these recordings were live takes with the whole band playing, and only rarely to a click track. Overdubs were restricted to vocals and maybe the occasional solo, and this is the key. With the whole band in the mix it sounded tight, with energy, dynamics and just the right amount of push around the beat.

Typically, we're not recording bass solos, we're supporting the band and responding in real time to the ebb and flow of the music...if it sounds good as an ensemble it is good, no matter how crappy it might sound in isolation.
 
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#38
I think it sounds fantastic. Sting is a good bass player, writing fantastic bass lines, singing lead, and making a trio sound full while moving around on stage and putting on a good show. He works very hard at keeping Copeland from rushing too much, and puts a great jazz groove into rock and roll. Personally, I love the tone he gets, and the intonation is good enough.

Could some of the people on this forum play it "better?" Certainly. At the end of a long show, on stage, in front of thousands, being recorded for a music video, while hot women throw their underclothes on stage and flash the band, while singing very well? Doubtful. You have to take guys like Sting, Gene Simmons, Macca, Geddy, etc. as complete performers. It isn't fair to take one aspect of a performance and say that I could do better. Maybe you can, if you have nothing else to do. These guys are doing a lot besides playing bass.
 
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#39
Re: overdrive.

In my experience, a bit of 'unexpected' overdrive on bass is a good thing. It adds some harmonic richness and kind of "dithers" the bass into the mix in an ear-pleasing fashion. Kinda glues it all in, when you look at the big picture.

Probably not appropriate for some genres like squeaky-clean smooth jazz, but for rock stuff it's brilliant.
 
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