Straight Edge and Feeler Gauge Method

[Otis66]

wait, this is a notched straightedge? where it fits between the frets and rests on the wood itself?

that's entirely the wrong tool! if you're going to use this method you need a regular smooth 24" straightedge that rests on the fret tops.

the notched straightedge is for evaluating the fretboard wood prior to refretting, it's not used in setups.

I use my straight edge to make sure neck is straight when I set up my guitar or bass. I use rocker to check frets. This is how I set up my base most of the time. I am now able to look down the neck to check for straightness and adjust string height.

 

[Otis66]

 

[Otis66]

 

[James Collins]

wait, this is a notched straightedge? where it fits between the frets and rests on the wood itself?

that's entirely the wrong tool! if you're going to use this method you need a regular smooth 24" straightedge that rests on the fret tops.

the notched straightedge is for evaluating the fretboard wood prior to refretting, it's not used in setups.

Do you mean to measure neck straightened based on the fretboard wood prior to fret leveling and not refretting? I would think if you wanted to check the fretboard during a regret you could use any straight edge with the frets out. Never done a fret before, so I'm no expert.

 

[Arie X]

the notched straight edge is used for evaluation of the neck plane, and the staight edge is used for evaluation the fret plane. ideally one would like the two to be parallel but some times they are not.

in practice, what really matters is where the fret plane is because this is what the the strings interact with.

ime, the notched straight edge brings data to the table when the frets are really low and you're trying to evaluate a full or partial refret or are trying to determine any significant difference betwen the two planes.

on electric guitars and acoustic guitars for example, sometimes a guitar will have the first five frets worn down pretty bad but the are still servicable and the remaining 17~19 or so are still in good shape. leveling all of the frets down and recrowning them in this scenario makes the neck plane and the fret plane no longer co-planar.

 

[walterw]

Do you mean to measure neck straightened based on the fretboard wood prior to fret leveling and not refretting?

no.

the notched straightedge is for refrets, it lets me determine the status of the fretboard itself while the frets are still in.

it’s the wrong tool for leveling and setups. in those cases the fret tops are all that matter and you use a regular smooth straightedge for that (if you’re not just using the string itself).

 

[JRA]

ultimately, its learning what I like on my basses that counts

the trial-and-error + visual method only takes a little more time, the first time. after that, you can calibrate by feel, easily. i spent some time, years ago, using measurement tools --- like my luthier used --- only to find that i still had to trial-and-error the process to make the setup work for me. (fretless)

 

[Otis66]

Do you mean to measure neck straightened based on the fretboard wood prior to fret leveling and not refretting? I would think if you wanted to check the fretboard during a regret you could use any straight edge with the frets out. Never done a fret before, so I'm no expert.

I’m talking about making sure the neck is not bowed forward or backward.
Before you level frets on a stringed instrument you should make sure all of the frets are seated in the fret slots

 

[Otis66]

 

[Otis66]

Using a “Notched” Straight edge to check the bass neck. He also uses a radius gauge to check/adjust the radius of the strings.

 

[Otis66]

My Musicman Stingray was just delivered. I’m going to check the frets, neck,and adjust string hieght this evening.

 

[James Collins]

no.

the notched straightedge is for refrets, it lets me determine the status of the fretboard itself while the frets are still in.

it’s the wrong tool for leveling and setups. in those cases the fret tops are all that matter and you use a regular smooth straightedge for that (if you’re not just using the string itself).

Learn something new. I have used the notched straight edge for fret leveling. What I did was straighten the neck with the notched straight edge so that the leveling would be relatively parallel to the new fret tops. Then I used a leveling beam to level the frets before crowning/polishing. I couldn't straighten the neck based on the frets because they were not level.

Someone linked a video that clarified what you might mean. Makes sense to diagnose problems to avoid a complete refret. Is that what you meant?

 

[walterw]

. I couldn't straighten the neck based on the frets because they were not level.

sure, a valid situation, but usually by the time it’s so worn that the fret tops are way off from the fretboard it’s time for a refret anyway.

With non-wrecked frets, the better method is to go off the tops, adjusting so they’re as straight as you can get before leveling. That way you remove as little material as possible to achieve a flat profile.

For setups you definitely go off the fret tops, that’s all that matters for playability.

 

[James Collins]

sure, a valid situation, but usually by the time it’s so worn that the fret tops are way off from the fretboard it’s time for a refret anyway.

With non-wrecked frets, the better method is to go off the tops, adjusting so they’re as straight as you can get before leveling. That way you remove as little material as possible to achieve a flat profile.

For setups you definitely go off the fret tops, that’s all that matters for playability.

This was a cheap guitar neck I bought mostly for practice at things. The neck was by no means wrecked and I probably could have just picked a "mostly straight" location. I do see your point.

 

[walterw]

I would think if you wanted to check the fretboard during a refret you could use any straight edge with the frets out.

you can, but...

with the frets ripped out you get rough, raised-up slot edges that can throw off a regular straightedge. using a notched edge in this case lets you measure against the nice undisturbed wood in between the slots.

once you've planed the fretboard wood smooth you would indeed go back to a regular straightedge.

my own method for refretting involves racking the neck into a tensioning jig while the strings are on and the frets are in, adjusted to be at its straightest with the notched straightedge. that way when i remove the strings and then remove the frets the neck itself doesn't move at all and i can then plane the wood smooth and flat, confident that once the new frets are in it'll still be flat under string tension.

 

[guts]

Forgive me if this particular question has been answered in a previous thread, I did do a lot of searching. I realize that this issue is perhaps somewhat OCD, but I am relatively new to setting up my own basses and I am trying to establish a baseline so that I can gauge relief with my eyes and hands eventually. That said, here's what I am trying to learn:

1. When using a straight edge and feeler gauges, where on the neck do you place the straight edge? The radius of the frets seems to alter my readings a bit if I measure near the E string versus between the A+D. Do you press down at all on the straight edge at all to make sure its' flat side is perpendicular against the frets?

2. What is considered a correct reading with the feeler? Should it barely touch the top of the straight edge? Should it drop through on its own if you let it go? I know this is probably considered common sense but when you get down to the difference between .012 and .015 its hard to assess the variance.

I watched the video of the Lakland guy where he bent the end of the feeler and hung it on the neck and he mentions the edge "touching all three points" which I assume were the 12th fret, gauge fret and 1st fret. Is this the better method?

FYI I am setting up a brand new custom shop P, so hopefully uneven fretwork and all that other business aren't impeding me.

Thanks for your help!

You're making it very difficult and expensive for yourself. You don't need all those tools at all. And you don't need to measure anything to get a feel for it.

1. Lower or raise your action and feel with your fingers if it's where you like it. Set it where it feels good.

2. Check for buzz.

3. Buzz at nut end of fretboard: increase relief/Buzz at bridge end of fretboard: decrease relief/Buzz everywhere: raise action. Adjust your truss rod slightly back and forth until the buzz goes away everywhere. It's a balancing act.

4. Intonate.

5. Adjust pickup height.

No measuring required. Just feel if the action is good then make the buzzing go away. If you lower your action a whole bunch your pickups might make the strings buzz, you will have to be aware of this and try lowering them if it sounds like they need to be lowered.

 

[RudyTardy]

You're making it very difficult and expensive for yourself. You don't need all those tools at all. And you don't need to measure anything to get a feel for it.

1. Lower or raise your action and feel with your fingers if it's where you like it. Set it where it feels good.

2. Check for buzz.

3. Buzz at nut end of fretboard: increase relief/Buzz at bridge end of fretboard: decrease relief/Buzz everywhere: raise action. Adjust your truss rod slightly back and forth until the buzz goes away everywhere. It's a balancing act.

4. Intonate.

5. Adjust pickup height.

No measuring required. Just feel if the action is good then make the buzzing go away. If you lower your action a whole bunch your pickups might make the strings buzz, you will have to be aware of this and try lowering them if it sounds like they need to be lowered.

Yes that does make sense. Although on my ‘59P, the heel truss adjustment is a major pain in the ass going back and forth. The nut is extremely tight (although it does move either direction). This all started with the desire not to screw up the neck.

 

[guts]

Ah. I understand now. My bad.

I would not use that instrument to learn how to set up a bass. Learn on something not so difficult to replace. Let a professional do your periodic adjustments on that one until you know what you're doing.

 

[RudyTardy]

Ah. I understand now. My bad.

I would not use that instrument to learn how to set up a bass. Learn on something not so difficult to replace. Let a professional do your periodic adjustments on that one until you know what you're doing.

All good dude. I realize it’s overkill you’re right about that. My Sadowsky is MUCH easier to adjust so I am practicing on that since I’ve been experimenting with different strings on that one. Really this is just about learning how to balance relief and saddle height. The quest for numbers was for reference, but yeah, superfluous considering I’m not a luthier

 

[walterw]

on my ‘59P, the heel truss adjustment is a major pain in the ass going back and forth.

yeah, hate that.

were it mine, i would mod the body and maybe even the pickguard with a little notch like an american standard fender, that way i could adjust without taking the neck off over and over.

you could then get an american standard hex-nut in there and use a sawed-off allen wrench or keep the cross-slot and use one of these from stew-mac:

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The nut is extremely tight (although it does move either direction).

that's a different issue. you want to spin it all the way out and lube the threads and the flat end of the nut with a little bit of paraffin wax and/or oil.