Strap button screws (original) coming loose after installing Schaller-style locks.

[Bass Master General]

Hi all,
I installed Fender-branded Schaller-style locks on my Jazz, and because they're Fender brand they luckily avoid the head/hole conundrum and I can use the bass' original screws. I made sure not to cross-thread nor overtorque them when I screwed them back in but even so, the horn screw started coming loose after only a few hours of playing. It got loose enough that I put a squirt of Elmer's into the hole for grip, but that only worked for so long. Now, the bottom screw is getting loose too. I don't want to let them get too loose and strip the threads but it is damn annoying to have to whip out a phillips after every few hours' of playing. I wonder why it would do this. Is it that the strap lock button is thicker than the original, giving less screw in the hole and fewer threads being gripped?

Any tips? Is this simply a job for the vaunted toothpick fix?

 

[DigitalMan]

Toothpick + tiny bit of Elmers

 

[Dan B]

Toothpick + tiny bit of Elmers

This is the correct way of doing it.

I've had this problem with my Schecter, which came with Schallers and also had a tendency to come loose, especially at the upper horn. What I did is use Gorilla Glue and a toothpick and it is holding tight. Not very pretty, but who's gonna be looking there anyway?

 

[Bob Coldwell]

Is it that the strap lock button is thicker than the original, giving less screw in the hole and fewer threads being gripped?

Any tips? Is this simply a job for the vaunted toothpick fix?

I'm not sure if the screw is now too short or the old channel is just worn out. If it's the former, get a longer screw. If it's the latter, toothpick or matchstick with glue works. And you can break/cut it off flush, so it won't be noticeable at all.

 

[P. Aaron]

On every bass I've owned that's had strap-locks, I've removed them and installed the standard strap pins. I just wanna play the damn thing & not have to worry about those types of issues. None of my basses have come flyin' off and crashed to the ground.

 

[dieselman]

I used the Toothpick and wood glue method on my P bass. Installed Schallers. I used two short pieces. Holding great! You might check the length of your screw compared to the long ones on the Schallers.

 

[bassbenj]

On every bass I've owned that's had strap-locks, I've removed them and installed the standard strap pins. I just wanna play the damn thing & not have to worry about those types of issues. None of my basses have come flyin' off and crashed to the ground.

This ^^

Oh wait! I use Dunlop straplocks on all my basses so EVERYONE SHOULD! I mean I just want to play it without the thing come flying off in the middle of a solo!

Actually, I lied. I do have a couple of Schallers too. I remove the standard buttons and put straplocks on any "new to me" bass I buy. And I HAVE had the problem. My fix is to take the strap-lock to the hardware store and try to find a slightly larger diameter and slightly longer screw for the button. If the new screw is considerably longer you may have to drill a pilot hole a bit deeper into the old screw hole. In serious cases I've gone with a fatter screw that needed the outside of the head ground down a bit to fit into the Dunlop button. I don't know about Schallers. I do know the longer screw thing NEVER comes loose. And it seems a better fix than toothpicks and moo glue or oozy Gorilla glue.

 

[Wallace320]

This ^^

Oh wait! I use Dunlop straplocks on all my basses so EVERYONE SHOULD! I mean I just want to play it without the thing come flying off in the middle of a solo!

Actually, I lied. I do have a couple of Schallers too. I remove the standard buttons and put straplocks on any "new to me" bass I buy. And I HAVE had the problem. My fix is to take the strap-lock to the hardware store and try to find a slightly larger diameter and slightly longer screw for the button. If the new screw is considerably longer you may have to drill a pilot hole a bit deeper into the old screw hole. In serious cases I've gone with a fatter screw that needed the outside of the head ground down a bit to fit into the Dunlop button. I don't know about Schallers. I do know the longer screw thing NEVER comes loose. And it seems a better fix than toothpicks and moo glue or oozy Gorilla glue.

This.
Definitely.
Period.
Always done like that.

Thanx ya bassbenj, IMHO always pretty practical advices

Cheers,
Wallace

 

[lukatch]

Here is a trick I've learned from Rickenbacker CEO John Hall: put a drop of water in the hole. The wood will absorb it and the screw hole will tighten, and it will stay tight even after it's all dry.

But a toothpick is fine too.

 

[P. Aaron]

This ^^

Oh wait! I use Dunlop straplocks on all my basses so EVERYONE SHOULD! I mean I just want to play it without the thing come flying off in the middle of a solo!

Actually, I lied. I do have a couple of Schallers too. I remove the standard buttons and put straplocks on any "new to me" bass I buy. And I HAVE had the problem. My fix is to take the strap-lock to the hardware store and try to find a slightly larger diameter and slightly longer screw for the button. If the new screw is considerably longer you may have to drill a pilot hole a bit deeper into the old screw hole. In serious cases I've gone with a fatter screw that needed the outside of the head ground down a bit to fit into the Dunlop button. I don't know about Schallers. I do know the longer screw thing NEVER comes loose. And it seems a better fix than toothpicks and moo glue or oozy Gorilla glue.

Actually, it's the strap bolts themselves that have always come loose at the strap, not the pin. I have had to replace bolts (some use the Grolsch tabs) yet I've never had a bass come loose from standard pins.

I ain't Steve Vai with the bass either.

 

[rafitoprtx]

Some pipe teflon will do it. Use a secrewdriver to tight it!

 

[bassfacer22]

this is the exact reason why it's not worth changing your pins.. unless of course you are forced to..

good story -

I was just at a music store with my $4000 Roscoe bass and looking for strap locks and the guy told me to stay away from the Dunlop straploks.. I asked him why? and he started giving me all these stories about how the way it holds onto the pin is terrible and all this and that and the bearings come loose... blah blah..

So I didn't know any better and meanwhile I wanted to buy the fender straplocks (I guess the same as the schallers) Well, they didn't fit my pins.. So then I tried the Dunlop ones which I also was told to use for Roscoe basses.. and of course it fit perfectly..

the point of this story is if I was to go with the Schallers'(fender) straplocks, I would have had to unscrew my pins and install the new ones that came with the straplocks.. I said to the guy "bullsh*#$% , I'm not taking off the pins of a $4000 bass and then possibly creating this exact situation here.. I knew I would probably strip or totally mess up the threads if I did that.. so end of story, I bought the dunlop ones.. and guess what.. no problems and I'll just buy them every 1 year or so if the ball bearings to apparently come loose after heavy use.. but I dont think thats a real issue.. Im also not steve vai with my bass either, and my bass isn't heavy at all.. the dunlops are so cheap anyway you can buy multiple and not break the bank at all..

so I just wanted to throw that in there since you went through with switching the pins.. which is fine on most cases as there are times you absolutely have to reinstall the pins.. but I always come from the mindset of once something's been drilled, dont mess with the threads if possible.. and your situation shows it perfectly..

meanwhile I have the dunlops on and I ain't worried about them coming off on a $4000 bass.. .

(until one day it does and i m going to find mr. dunlop haha)

 

[Matty Koff]

Toothpick + tiny bit of Elmers

The only time I've had to fix a loose strap peg I didn't even need the Elmers.. all it took was the tooth pick.. never came loose again.

 

[Gard]

this is the exact reason why it's not worth changing your pins.. unless of course you are forced to..

good story -

I was just at a music store with my $4000 Roscoe bass and looking for strap locks and the guy told me to stay away from the Dunlop straploks.. I asked him why? and he started giving me all these stories about how the way it holds onto the pin is terrible and all this and that and the bearings come loose... blah blah..

So I didn't know any better and meanwhile I wanted to buy the fender straplocks (I guess the same as the schallers) Well, they didn't fit my pins.. So then I tried the Dunlop ones which I also was told to use for Roscoe basses.. and of course it fit perfectly..

the point of this story is if I was to go with the Schallers'(fender) straplocks, I would have had to unscrew my pins and install the new ones that came with the straplocks.. I said to the guy "bullsh*#$% , I'm not taking off the pins of a $4000 bass and then possibly creating this exact situation here.. I knew I would probably strip or totally mess up the threads if I did that.. so end of story, I bought the dunlop ones.. and guess what.. no problems and I'll just buy them every 1 year or so if the ball bearings to apparently come loose after heavy use.. but I dont think thats a real issue.. Im also not steve vai with my bass either, and my bass isn't heavy at all.. the dunlops are so cheap anyway you can buy multiple and not break the bank at all..

so I just wanted to throw that in there since you went through with switching the pins.. which is fine on most cases as there are times you absolutely have to reinstall the pins.. but I always come from the mindset of once something's been drilled, dont mess with the threads if possible.. and your situation shows it perfectly..

meanwhile I have the dunlops on and I ain't worried about them coming off on a $4000 bass.. .

(until one day it does and i m going to find mr. dunlop haha)

There's a reason we install the Dunlop Dual-Use buttons as OEM strap buttons: THEY WORK

In over 30 years of playing semi-pro & professionally, I've NEVER had a properly installed Dunlop fail. Never. Schallers on the other hand.........I almost broke the headstock off a vintage Gibson ES-335 because of Schallers. The nut will work its way loose. The "C" clip on the Dunlop CAN'T do that. If you install the strap mechanism into the strap button properly, it won't come out. You do need to put a little drop of oil (I use 3-in-1) in the strap mechanism every now and then to make sure it doesn't rust - I never do it more often than once a year.

For the final coup de gras - when you see Victor Wooten "spinning" his bass around on the strap, check what kind of strap locks he uses....(let me save you time: Dunlop )

 

[Big Hoss]

My first Squier did that after installing Schaller Strap Locks. I sold it with that problem.

Knowing what I know now, drill out the hole to the diameter of the smallest possible dowel just bigger than the screw threads, Use some quality wood glue, and glue a dowel in, let it cure, CAREFULLY trim the dowel flush with a razor knife. Once flush, dimple the spot to drill with a small nail, so that the drill bit won't wander, and then pick a drill bit the size of the inner part of the screw (the center shaft, NOT the threads) that is called the pilot hole. Now reinstall the strap lock / screw. If you did everything right, it should be rock solid for pretty much ever.

For what it's worth, ALL of my basses now are using flip top beer cap gaskets for strap locks on the stock strap buttons with no problems at all...

 

[VWbug]

I've seen where luthiers insert dowels in soft wood bodies like Poplar to keep them in there good and tight.

 

[gjbassist]

Another vote for toothpick plus a dab of glue. I used to be a fan of the Schaller locks until earlier this year when I caught a bass in mid fall after the nut had worked its way loose! I applied Loctite to all the nuts on the locks which helped but also caused one of the lock pins to freeze up! On the last bass I got I left the stock strap buttons and put rubber washers on after the strap. Works great and a lot cheaper!

 

[Luckydog]

I will never use schallers again. Extremely poor design when the strap can pivot around causing the connection to free. Never ever had a problem with dunlops. Very good design. Very secure. Yeah the screws are a touch wider diameter than most stock pin screws. But the added security is worth enlarging the hole very slightly. Almost all my basses have dunlop pins, and i have 3 straps with the mate ends.

 

[Gaolee]

I have had the pins come unscrewed. I have had straplocks come unscrewed. The bit of wood and Elmers trick has worked every time. I don't know what it is I'm doing, exactly, but something causes those things to randomly unscrew.

 

[bassbenj]

There's a reason we install the Dunlop Dual-Use buttons as OEM strap buttons: THEY WORK

In over 30 years of playing semi-pro & professionally, I've NEVER had a properly installed Dunlop fail. Never. Schallers on the other hand.........I almost broke the headstock off a vintage Gibson ES-335 because of Schallers. The nut will work its way loose. The "C" clip on the Dunlop CAN'T do that. If you install the strap mechanism into the strap button properly, it won't come out. You do need to put a little drop of oil (I use 3-in-1) in the strap mechanism every now and then to make sure it doesn't rust - I never do it more often than once a year.

For the final coup de gras - when you see Victor Wooten "spinning" his bass around on the strap, check what kind of strap locks he uses....(let me save you time: Dunlop )

I do pretty much agree with everything said here. BUT. Even though I favor Dunlops they are not perfect. The key phrase above is "If you install the strap mechanism into the strap button properly." One MUST be careful to do that. I have had a couple of occasions where the strap was not fully engaged and it came loose later. Brrrrr!

This led me to wiping some lithium grease on all the Dunlop Strap pins. that makes mating much more reliable. And I've developed a habit of carefully checking the engagement of the lock EVERY time I put the strap on. And I will add that I bought a "new to me" high mileage bass that came with Dunlop straploks. The holes in the buttons were worn enough that the strap would come out of the button when playing. I double checked it all and it was the WEAR causing the problem. I just replaced the buttons and it was fine. Now I've never put enough miles on a bass to wear out a Dunlop straplock, but this experience showed me that it IS possible!