Maybe a Strat pickup with different magnet stagger, but still fundamentally a Strat pickup
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Strat pickup in bass?
- Thread starter FightMilk
- Start date
Most passive guitar pickups with rails will work just fine with bass, as there is fundamentally no difference in the design of a guitar or bass pickup apart from the poles in some pickups (and as mentioned regarding the Musicmaster bass, even pole alignment isn't necessarily a problem). I'm not familiar with the SAX specifically but I know some EMG active guitar pickups have built-in voicings that are pretty extreme and not like a typical passive pickup and so might be less ideal in a bass (the EMG81 humbucker pickup is infamous for this, with a round midrange hump of frequency response with a sharp cutoff of both bass and treble). Based on the SAX description on the EMG site it seems like it is designed to be more authentic to an actual traditional Strat pickup tone which should work just fine on bass and might well help tighten/brighten up the response somewhat vs your current pickup.
What specifically is the current pickup you have in there? If it is also an EMG active pickup then the current tone control should work fine with the SAX, but if your current pickup is an EMG-HZ passive pickup then neither the volume or tone control will pair well with an active pickup like the SAX (you will only hear a change right at the very bottom of the Tone or Volume sweep).
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More like "similar to" a Strat pickup. In fact, based on a Musicmaster guitar pickup...which is itself based on a Strat pickup – so a variant of a variant. Calling it "a Strat pickup" means that it was the same exact part, just slapped in a different instrument. That is not the case, and should not be taught as being the case. It was modified in certain ways to be used on one model only. Therefore whatever point is trying to be made by the statement that it "is" a Strat pickup is null and void. Best to have just said "six pole pickup," which would have made the intended point (that the number of individual poles isn't critical in this case), while remaining factual.
That general "form factor" of pickup, used in Stratocasters starting in 1954 has, starting in 1956 and continuing later, been used in Duo Sonics, Musicmasters, Mustangs, Jaguars, Musicmaster Basses, Broncos, and other instruments. Most of these had model-specific variations, and you can bet that Fender engineered them differently for good reasons, kept track of which was which, and didn't just call them all "Strat pickups" in the factory.
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Highly doubtful- Fender started and succeeded based on mass-production standards and finding ways to make various models using existing parts in most cases. Being able to grab parts from a bin and easily mate them with compatible parts from another bin with minimal fuss. That's why so many parts and pickups are in the same form-factor to begin with! Fender himself was a tinkerer that found interesting ways to get different sounds from similar parts (like putting the metal "cage" around a Strat pickup coil in the Jaguar, though those pickups are fundamentally different in other ways). To me a ceramic bar magnet under steel poles is still a "Strat pickup" even without the alnico pole magnets and that is far different in design than the difference between a Musicmaster bass pickup and the Strat pickups that were built of all the same components (exactly same magnets, exactly same wire) on the same bobbins to the same (fairly inconsistent) winding specs as Strat pickups. Shifting the height of a few magnets hardly makes it a different pickup! There are tons of staggered pole Strat pickups.
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There's nothing to doubt about it. It's what they did. They absolutely engineered several model-specific pickups using the same, or similar, die cut fiberboard flatwork as Strat pickups, but different magnet heights, magnetic polarities, and winding directions, specific to different models. They sourced the different parts needed to make the different versions. They absolutely did install these pickups in different models of guitars based on these differences in the pickups. They did not just mix and match Strat/Musicmaster/Mustang/Bronco/Duo Sonic/Musicmaster Bass pickups.
Stick a pair of '50s, '60s, or '70s Strat pickups into a Mustang or Duo Sonic with classic wiring, and the guitar will not even work as intended polarity-wise, not to mention being brighter, because the coils cannot get as close to the strings. Stick student model pickups in a Strat, adjust the outer two pole pieces to the same distances from the strings as they were on the Strat pickups, and you have a warmer tone than the Strat pickups, because the coil is sitting closer to the strings. Stick a '70s Strat pickup in a Musicmaster Bass, and you have a thinner sound, with an E and G string that are out of volume balance with the A and the D strings (somewhat like a flat poled Jazz Bass is) – already explained in my first post in the thread.
I have never said that these pickups are not inherently similarly constructed, or not made of the same types of components, in the general sense. All mass production shares parts whenever possible; it's basic efficiency. Even so, Fender's engineers deemed these differences worthwhile enough to source the parts for, and produce, the different variants, and place them each in specific models. I have said that they each had their own designs, intended for specific models, therefore they should not all be called "Strat pickups." That's not a controversial point. The variants were model dependent. Calling them all "Strat pickups" glosses over the differences, which are real. Musicmaster Basses did not use Strat pickups. They used Musicmaster Bass pickups...which were very similar to the student model guitar pickups...which were themselves very similar to Strat pickups. So...they aren't Strat pickups. Simple.
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“Engineering” is a bit of a stretch to me in this case. What are the “different parts” used? They are in nearly every case the same exact Strat coil (Jaguar pickups do have a taller coil, the rest AFAIK are identical) and same magnets already used in some other Fender pickup (shorter poles as in a fully covered pickup mean the magnets used in a Tele neck pickup vs Strat pickup). Different mounting schemes and so maybe flatwork (a 2 screw pickup probably used the Jaguar flatwork) in a few cases, I’ll give you that. Different polarities? There are only two magnetic polarities, and both of those are already used in a single Strat guitar (you have one bin of “North” and one bin of “South). Shifting the magnets of the pickup to me doesn’t make it a different pickup fundamentally, while I will concede that putting a typical staggered-pole Strat pickup into a Musicmaster wouldn’t be ideal (but still absolutely works) but 70s Strat pickups already had a high G pole, raised D pole very low B pole, etc.
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It is absolutely engineering. That's what engineering is.
The different parts used are different height magnets, and different covers, for different pickups. It doesn't matter whether they were "already" in the factory or not. It's about different parts for different purposes. That said, the sunken outer poles used on Musicmaster Bass pickups were not used on any other Fender pickups, once they all went to non-staggered poles in the '70s.
Yes, different polarities, both magnetic and electronic (in concert with reverse winding). Duo Sonic pickups were made with one pickup RW/RP (and no pole stagger), starting in the '50s. The Mustang followed suit in the '60s. Strat pickups came in only one polarity and winding direction, not as you say. RW/RP was first used in the factory on Strats starting in the post CBS days! Strat pickups had no pole stagger from '74, into the '80s. You're really betraying your lack of knowledge about old Fender parts and specs here.
Again, it isn't about designs that are "fundamentally" the same or not. I never argued that they are not fundamentally the same.
It's about how the different variants of said design are properly referred to. Different pickups were used for different models. They were not called the same pickups in the factory, and calling them the same pickups now spreads ignorance and confusion. If something is engineered for a Strat specifically, then it's a Strat pickup. If it was engineered for a different guitar specifically, then it is not a Strat pickup. It's very straightforward.
You are just puffing your feathers up over what is effectively a Strat pickup put in a bass. I bow to your vintage Fender knowledge, which honestly doesn't mean an iota in regards to the discussion at hand. When they made the Musicmaster bass they could have genuinely reengineered a pickup for it, they could have made an original P single-coil with tighter pole spacing, they could have done all sorts of different things- but what they actually did was just pull a Strat (or yeah maybe "DuoSonic pickup") pickup off the shelf and say "hmm, I wonder what this sounds like in a bass"? Probably there was some peakiness on a string and they pushed two magnets down. That's it.
I'm "engineering" my way out of this pointless conversation that was always entirely irrelevant to the OP's question when you brought it into the thread. Feel free to fluff your feathers more for all to see, I am not coming back, you win!
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That is what happened – except that they didn't push magnets down. They used shorter magnets. That's how engineering works a lot of the time. Adaptation via slight modification.
A pickup that was only used in a Strat is called a Strat pickup. A pickup that was only used in a Musicmaster Bass is not called a Strat pickup. It was always that simple of a point. You argued with that very simple point, and made it into something else, by making a continuing series of false statements and assumptions, without the knowledge to do so sensibly. Yet correcting that by coldly stating facts is "puffing out feathers." Yeah. You have it backwards. I'm un-puffing someone else's feathers.
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I've got a Duncan Hot Rail strat pickup on my Bronco and it sounds great.
I still disagree with your fundamental assertion (particularly in relation to this thread since IMO it is irrelevant to this thread RE: an EMG SAX pickup), but happy to concede that you are correct that the 70s Fender Musicmaster pickup has a single minor difference to the 70s Strat pickups that otherwise matched it exactly (probably done because of the tight radius of 70s Fender bass necks? I guess you know the answer to this). There are tons of things we call Strat pickups these days using completely different magnets, different magnet staggers, hell completely different coils all in the form-factor that we call "Strat pickups" that are actually different from a traditional Strat pickup in some substantial way and yet hardly anyone would argue that they were not a "Strat pickup". I could put a Musicmaster pickup into the neck position of a Strat and it would also be a Strat pickup.
Oh crap I am a terrible engineer
I would call most of those later styles of pickups Strat pickups too, if they were primarily/originally designed to serve in Strats. I would call them the same if they were put in other models of instruments too, as long as they were not given modifications specific to those other models of instruments, that were never used on Strats.
I would not call something a Strat pickup if it was never intended to be placed in a Strat in the factory, and had its own design elements that were specific to the model/s it was placed in – even if the general form of the pickup was shared with Strat pickups.
The closest modern equivalent to the Musicmaster Bass is the Squier Bronco Bass. These also use six pole pickups, which use steel-poled construction ("Gibson style," in the general sense – i.e. magnets below, and temporary magnets for poles). IIRC, they are indeed the same-ol' pickups that are used in countless imports, and which were likely originally designed for Strats or Strat style guitars. I would call these Strat pickups, barring any specific information that they were somehow tweaked specifically for the Bronco Bass. I haven't dug into them enough to know.
I have a '90s MIJ '50s style Strat that I outfitted with a mystery neck pickup that's a classic Strat construction, and a matched set of '65 Duo Sonic pickups in the middle and bridge positions (wired for optional series orientation, like in a Duo Sonic). I refer to the guitar as having a Strat pickup and two Duo Sonic pickups. You can easily see which pickups are which, because all three pickups have Strat covers on them. The Strat pickup has staggered, protruding poles, while the Duo Sonic pickups' poles top out well below the tops of the bobbins, leaving the holes in the pickup covers looking "empty."
The differences between Strat pickups of the era and Musicmaster Bass pickups were not "minor." All the poles on the Musicmaster Bass pickups are significantly lower. This affects output and string-to-string balance directly – and indirectly, it allows for a wider range of pickup height settings to be used.
Strats of the era had the same fingerboard radius as Musicmaster basses. Most Fenders had 7 1/4" radius fingerboards until the '80s. One notable exception I can think of is that some '70s Teles used a 9 1/2" radius.
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Hmmm. Are the electronics on your bass EMG active or HZ passive? Yes, a HB-to-Single adaptor mounting plate will work. EMG makes both the active and passive versions of what you are thinking about. But before you change out the neck pickup, have you simply lowered the E-string side to get a little more clarity? You are correct that with the right choice of pickup you can lower the mid response and obtain a little more clarity as well. Since EMG now makes a variety of Strat-sized pickups, read the descriptions carefully, because in my years of using EMG actives I find them to be fairly accurate as to what to expect sonically out of each pickup.
It’s the active HB model I’m swapping. EMG did confirm I’d have to use the tone pot with the strat pickup, the VLPF. This isn’t because of the pickup really but anything with the X series preamps needs this tone control. So changing one pot isnt bad. But they make a solid shaft version for bass knobs and a guitar version for Strat style knobs. Pretty sure it comes with the guitar version of the pot so I’m picking up the bass version as well. I’ll throw the guitar version on eBay. I hate split shaft spline pots on bass. The HB pickup is also very wiggly side to side since humbucker mounting springs usually suck. I’ve been using duct tape to keep it from wiggling. Hopefully the strat pickup will be a bit more secure with less wiggle. I guess I could set the height and tape it on the underside, because foam doesn’t really work with pickguard or ring mounting.
Actually no, I wanted a humbucker with blades and remembered hot rails from when I sold them in my music store. They sound great on bass. The original bronco had a strat pickup under the solid cover.
Before and after! Pretty easy man I love EMG solderless kits. New Strat pickup has the sound! I can slam the strings without too much of a boom. It really translates the acoustic vibe of the resonator well. The old pickup had better output but just sounded like a boomy bass. Now it has much less output but sounds more like a guitar. I was surprised how low output it is, I plugged it in and thought it wasn’t working, but I turn up my input gain on the amp all the way and there it is. Planning on bumping up the signal with a compressor at the start and a Jad freer capo at the end. I had to cut the pickup springs shorter to get more height out of the pickup because it seems like these strat pickups want to be slammed up right next to the strings. I’m also trying out strings I’ve never used, the Ddarrio extra super light .35 gauge strings which really help with the slink feel making slapping and stuff easier. The pickup seems to respond really well with the lighter strings. Need to put some fresh 9 volts, no idea how old the ones in it are. Thanks for checking out my addiction! lol
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I put an EMG Strat pickup in a Fender Bronco bass I converted to an 8 string. It made a great bass pickup and should do just what you need.
