Streamliner 600 vs Little Mark Tube?

[jumblemind]

My current setup...
BASS: passive Fender
AMP: Markbass Little Mark Tube
CABS: 8ohm Avatar B210. For larger rooms or outside I also put an SVT15 cab underneath
STYLE: wedding/private party circuit

With this rig I get great clean, warm tone with tons of headroom that is very present in any mix. The MB is the first amp I've owned that sang through evenly and clearly no matter how low or high I went. However, that clean tone is bugging me a lot lately. For the more rockin sets, I really want some flavor. I've tried the pedal route but am thinking it might be nice to have it all in the amp. So I'm contemplating a Streamliner 600.

I've done a fair amount of reading and research, but my outstanding questions are:
• Can I expect the STM600 to play nice with my cabs? I know the STL can be finicky.
• Might I lose all of the clean headroom? I've read around here that you have to crank the STL600 to get any good output. And I'm reluctant to go 900w.
• Is there still support for Genz Benz products? I haven't kept up much on how the Fender thing is playing out.

Any feedback appreciated.

 

[Texan]

Go with the 900, the extra wattage gives extra presence IMO. The Streamliner is very reactive to your attack. I love it and can play very different styled songs in a set just by adjusting my bass tone or position where I pluck. Set the gain right at the threshold of breakup and play soft for clean songs and dig in when you need the breakup. Or just keep it clean there is tons of headroom.

I think it will be fine with your cabs. I've played through Crate cabs and got a good tone...nuff said.

As far as customer service, nothing has changed AFAIK. Its still one of the best.

 

[jumblemind]

The Streamliner is very reactive to your attack.

Hmmm...this tube quality may be a negative for me. My play attack is really uneven, depends on how excited the drummer is when he shows up. I often find myself digging in quite a bit just for extra volume. That seems to make the argument more for the 900, but don't think I can swing that at the moment. Just happened to find a great deal on a 600 and got to pondering.

Good to know on the other points. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[silky smoove]

I've owned an LMTube, and currently own an STL900. For me, the Streamliner is infinitely better than the LMTube in every respect except for getting a really hi-fi, ultra clean tone, but I find there are better options if that's your cup of tea. I ultimately thought that the LMTube was a great head that did a lot of things well, but nothing great.

 

[jumblemind]

How do you feel about the gain and power stages moving from the LMTube? Do you think the 600 could have been comparable? Or is that a reason you went with the 900?

 

[Texan]

For me, the Streamliner is infinitely better than the LMTube in every respect except for getting a really hi-fi, ultra clean tone, but I find there are better options if that's your cup of tea.

This is largely dependant on the bass you use and how much tweeter you dial in. With my P and Jazz basses, I can get very vintage. With the same settings on the amp and my active basses, I can get a great HiFi clean tone by using the eq on the bass.

There is nothing wrong with the 600 in respect to head room and is plenty loud. The 900 just has that extra oompf if you need it.

 

[Downunderwonder]

What pedals did you try?

 

[jumblemind]

What pedals did you try?

Polish Love, Sansamp, Catalinbread SFT, Darkglass VMT, Zoom MS-60b. I also have a Pork Loin on the way and was expecting a pre-ordered VT Bass DI to be here by now (won't be happening for a while). I'm not a fan of the Tech 21 sound in general, but I know the VT Bass is the most popular pairing with Markbass heads for the tube grit side, which is why I ordered one. I have a PT Nano, though, and won't go bigger for a variety of reasons.

I've had the most success with the amp models on the Zoom, and they work fine. I find myself using the filters more and more, though, so it's either buy another Zoom for the modeling or go ahead and get an amp that doesn't need a pedal for the basic tones I'm after.

 

[KJung]

Gigged an LMII a while back (almost identical to the LMTube IME) and then gigged a Streamliner900 for a couple of years.

+1 to most of the above posts. Here's a little more info based on my experience.

First, I found that little mini tube in the LMTube to have very little impact on the tone or feel of the amp. In my A-Bing with the LMII/III, once you set the gain to match, the amps sounded very close. So, the LMTube is very 'not tubey'. No give, and a very straightforward tone stack. Turn the filters off, set the gain just under clip, EQ flat, and you have a pretty good, even, warm, plug and play sound. The EQ is set up like a channel strip in that it is more about keeping the inherent tone of the amp constant from room to room than radically changing the feel and the tone.

The Streamliner is at the other end of the spectrum. It has a much more complex front end, with everything interacting with everything else (like many all tube amps), and a kind of 'modified Fender type' tone stack, where 'all knobs at noon' is not a particularly good thing. The gain/volume/master gain stages are interesting, and lots of different sound in there, especially when combined with the 'gain boost' circuit and the EQ. Small changes on any knob can result in BIG changes in the tone. If you are willing to put in the time, it is probably the closest hybrid I've ever experience that 'feels and sounds' somewhat like an all tube signal path (for better or worse). Some of the Mesa hybrids like the MPulse600 have this vibe also.

I find the Genz power ratings a touch 'hopeful', so the 600 should give you pretty much similar output to the 500 watt Markbass amps. The power management is very good, so while the Markbass will eventually strongly compress and stop getting louder when you hit the max output, the Streamliner will do more of an 'all tube amp' thing.... .compress gently and it will keep getting louder with more distortion and compression. Very nice.

The Markbass, with its very 'flat/neutral' voice always sounded good (assuming you liked the clean/warm thing) with virtually any cab I tried it with. The big, wide open, relaxed midrange of the Streamliner, with that 'complex but somewhat limited EQ' really sounded great with some cabs, and MUCH too 'wide and relaxed' for me with other cabs (I definitely need some aggressive mid punch in my sound in the busy mixes I usually perform in).

So, who knows if you will dig it, but it will be a way, way different experience. If I were you, I'd get a VT DI pedal when they are released and be happy. However, if you want a significantly different vibe, with the more organic, reactive feeling of an amp that is significantly driven by its multiple tube front end, you may love it!

IMO and IME.

Edit: I eventually moved to the Aguilar TH500, which kind of sits right between the Streamliner and the LM Markbass amps..... growly, grunty and 'tubey' in its own way, but lots of midrange complexity and punch, combined with a tone stack and gain that interact strongly. Not as wide and clean as the LM, but much punchier and mid complex than the Streamliner. FYI!

 

[jumblemind]

Thanks, Ken. Some of your posts led me to the MB in the first place. I knew about the ineffectiveness of the tube, but I figured I would use the Mute and second 1/4" input at some point and opted for the LMT instead of the III. Not ashamed to admit the color scheme played a roll, as well.

Interesting that the TH500 sits in the middle. Prior to my current setup I had an Aguilar TH500 but found it was a little too chewy. There was too much delay in note attack for my taste, and not a lot of top end. I don't slap and usually keep my bass tone rolled all the way back, so it was a bit too compressed to me (with no pleasant drive dirt as a tradeoff)…if the Streamliner is all that and more, maybe I'm indeed barking up the wrong tree. I just find myself getting back to liking the tube amp sound lately.

From all the clips I've heard, the VT bass has too much high end clank and synthetic sound for my taste, but so many endorsements might be worth a try. Looks like I just need to bite the bullet and get a Streamliner while keeping my MB and let them duke it out. Won't my wife be pleased...

 

[KJung]

Thanks, Ken. Some of your posts led me to the MB in the first place. I knew about the ineffectiveness of the tube, but I figured I would use the Mute and second 1/4" input at some point and opted for the LMT instead of the III. Not ashamed to admit the color scheme played a roll, as well.

Interesting that the TH500 sits in the middle. Prior to my current setup I had an Aguilar TH500 but found it was a little too chewy. There was too much delay in note attack for my taste, and not a lot of top end. I don't slap and usually keep my bass tone rolled all the way back, so it was a bit too compressed to me (with no pleasant drive dirt as a tradeoff)…if the Streamliner is all that and more, maybe I'm indeed barking up the wrong tree. I just find myself getting back to liking the tube amp sound lately.

From all the clips I've heard, the VT bass has too much high end clank and synthetic sound for my taste, but so many endorsements might be worth a try. Looks like I just need to bite the bullet and get a Streamliner while keeping my MB and let them duke it out. Won't my wife be pleased...

That is the best way to truly find out.

Yeah, the TH500 is relatively organic and relaxed up top, but I find plenty of top end myself with my 70's J with roundwounds. However, the EQ, like the Streamliner, is quite interactive, and if you don't spend time with it (e.g., like thinking that the 'drive' control is actually an overdrive control versus what it really does, which is reduce the upper treble and deep bass), the amp can sound a bit dull. It grinds up top pretty well, but +1 in that it surely does not extend into the upper treble like the LM amps or the Streamliner, which has a particularly nice 'tubey' sweet top end.

Good luck on the search!

Edit: I believe I still have a Streamliner clip up on my Youtube channel (with the Baer ML and my P Bass with nickel wounds), along with a bunch of TH350/500 clips that might be a useful data point if you have decent phones.

 

[phishaholik]

I had a Steamliner 900 for a few months and honestly never really got a good tone out of it. It's definitely not versatile, as it doesn't have many different tones and pretty much has no midrange. It's all sub-lows and some treble up top. There's actually a dip in the lower midrange, so punch is out of the picture. I have owned a ton of all tube amps and the Streamliner didn't sound at all like any of them. I've heard a lot of people say it acts like an all tube amp, but that wasn't my experience at all. I did like the power amp, just not the preamp.

I currently have a LMTube and I love it. It's much more punchy and works with every cab I put it through. The tone isn't absolutely fantastic, but it's really good at all settings. Even though it doesn't have the give or break-up of an all tube amp, I really felt that it comes much, much closer to my SVT. I also found the tube to have more of an effect than most other people, especially in the way the lows sound and when you push the gain hard. I do, however, wish that the LM has a semi-parametric EQ.


I would never recommend the Streamliner for anything other than a power amp myself, but I would whole heartedly recommend the LMTube to anyone, especially for the price.



Michael

 

[jumblemind]

I currently have a LMTube and I love it. It's much more punchy and works with every cab I put it through. The tone isn't absolutely fantastic, but it's really good at all settings. Even though it doesn't have the give or break-up of an all tube amp, I really felt that it comes much, much closer to my SVT. I also found the tube to have more of an effect than most other people, especially in the way the lows sound and when you push the gain hard.

I agree with the first part, but how on earth are you able to push the gain to get any action out of that tube? I can't get past 8 o'clock on the gain (with a passive bass) without crazy clipping.

 

[KJung]

I agree with the first part, but how on earth are you able to push the gain to get any action out of that tube? I can't get past 8 o'clock on the gain (with a passive bass) without crazy clipping.

Unless you have one of the hottest bass outputs around, combined with very aggressive technique, it sounds like there might be something wrong with your amp. So, your input clip light comes on with the gain barely on?

With my moderately hot output basses, and pounding on the B string to optimally set the gain on my Markbass amps, the clip light typically comes on at that extreme playing at about noon or so on the input... maybe 11 o'clock on my hottest bass (which happens to be a passive P).

Does your amp do this (distort) in both the 100% tube and 100% solid state setting?

 

[jumblemind]

Edit: I believe I still have a Streamliner clip up on my Youtube channel (with the Baer ML and my P Bass with nickel wounds), along with a bunch of TH350/500 clips that might be a useful data point if you have decent phones.

Haha, I actually watched that vid the other day, one of the reasons I started contemplating the STL in earnest. Good vid, and sounds pretty darned tubey to me. Even has a tight sound, almost like the cab is sealed.

 

[phishaholik]

I agree with the first part, but how on earth are you able to push the gain to get any action out of that tube? I can't get past 8 o'clock on the gain (with a passive bass) without crazy clipping.

The lows kind of compress a bit when you hit them hard when the knob is completely turned to the tube side. I didn't really like the amount of compression on the lows, so I usually run the knob pretty close to 1:00, which is just slightly favouring the tube side.

Also, when I set the gain just under clipping and I strike the strings hard the tube tends to put out some distortion, which doesn't happen on the solid state side as much. It's honestly not really a sound you would go after, but it is a difference between the tube and solid state sides.


I usually run the gain at around 1:00 IIRC.


Michael

 

[jumblemind]

Unless you have one of the hottest bass outputs around, combined with very aggressive technique, it sounds like there might be something wrong with your amp. So, your input clip light comes on with the gain barely on?

With my moderately hot output basses, and pounding on the B string to optimally set the gain on my Markbass amps, the clip light typically comes on at that extreme playing at about noon or so on the input... maybe 11 o'clock on my hottest bass (which happens to be a passive P).

Does your amp do this (distort) in both the 100% tube and 100% solid state setting?

I usually keep my tube mix at 1 o'clock, haven't tested it 100% one way or the other. And now that I think about it, I think I start clipping around the 10-11o'clock range. Probably more reasonable. I have passive Squiers usually with this rig; the CV 60s P may have a bit hotter output, the mix and match J is average or below. I'll double check things tonight.

 

[jumblemind]

I went ahead and got the Streamliner, played it last night for the first time at a bar gig with nice PA support. Very different from the LMT. I loved the tube character, this is definitely the sound I've been looking for. It was very tough to EQ so that I could hear every note clearly, though. And that could very well be due to my cabinet, an Avatar B210. The Markbass with that cab is always clear across the full spectrum of notes without needing volume or gain dialed very high at all. The Streamliner sounded deep and loud at soundcheck but got completely swallowed in the mix. I ended up engaging the gain boost, cranking the mids and highs, and keeping the bass lower. I also dialed up the tweeter on the cab. It was passable, but I felt like I was wrestling the strings all night.

I'd noticed in the past that the Avatar is a bit scooped, as my GK head would get lost with it, as well. So maybe that's the issue, I just need a different cab.

 

[noahw1]

I have the streamliner 900 with avatar b210 neos and the setting I've found that really allows for a good clean and clear tone is:
Gain button ON
gain at 9 o'clock
volume at 3 o'clock
bass at 9 -11
mids (600) at 3
treble 11-1
Master volume to taste
For me this setting really cleans up the tone and makes it more cutting when I'm using my Jazz. The extra grit and presence seems to muddy the sound.
When I play my P the added mid presence seems to allow me the ability to grit up the tone and boost the gain.
Check the Streamliner 900 settings thread on here for other ideas. A lot of people like to use what they call the SVT setting which is something like
Gain Off
Gain 3 o'clock
Volume 3 o'clock
Bass 9 o'clock
Mids (220) 9-10
Treble - Noon
Master Volume to taste

 

[jumblemind]

Awesome, I was too gun shy to push any knob past 1 o'clock, but i'll give those a shot and dive more into the other threads. I wonder if I need more speaker area with this head, too.