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Stretching left hand over four frets? Really?

+1 Jimmy... I can only go by the way I was taught back about 1974, and have played ever since. OFPF, and I often reach for a fifth fret with my pinky. In higher registers, 6 frets. Never had a strain or injury, even playing 7 days a week.

For the OP, I'd say try it gently. Don't force it, or work until your hand and wrist are stiff. Have a knowledgeable teacher give you a lesson and some exercises.
 
Hey JimmyM,

I'm curious about what your LH technique looks like. You have always been an advocate of one finger per fret, and have said elsewhere that you have pretty small hands and find it comfortable and easy, even in the first 5 frets.
it's not that I don't believe you or am trying to argue: I got smallish hands, and My experience has always been that 1234 fingering in the lower frets cause undue stress.
So It seems you must be doing things in your approach to reduce excess strain.
Have you ever made a pic or vid of your technique?

Are you using a short scale (I seem to recall Not)?
what's the break angle of your wrist -how straight is it?
when you make a 4 or 5 fret stretch are you using your thumb to pivot, and moving your palm, or is it all just splayed fingers?

Mostly just curious to witness how relaxed your LH is ...
 
I'm a newbie on the bass. I picked up "Bass Guitar for Dummies" -- it seems like a pretty good mix of theory, grooves and styles.

My biggest issue right now is that the author recommends a left hand style that puts each of the four fingers on the left hand on consecutive frets -- how on earth is that supposed to happen?

I'm a 6' tall male with average size hands (or at least I always I assumed they were).

Is there something I should be looking at? Is it a matter of time until my hand stretches out?

I'm only 5' 10" with sort of average to smaller hands and I can do that at the first four frets of the E-string without issues. I've also been playing for close to 20 years, and actually spent the first 5 of those not using my left pinky finger at all.

It comes with time, barring any existing issues with the joints in your hand. Practice, practice, practice. Scale runs are good for building speed, strength, and agility in your hands. I was taught to start with a C-Major scale and then go up the neck using the different modes in the scale (Dorian, Phrygian, etc.)

Good luck and have fun with it.
 
IMO and IME ofpf will only be damaging if you 1) are doing it wrong or 2) you go too far, too fast. Obviously pretty much no one can do ofpf at fret 1 right away. And possibly 3) you have pre-existing problems not caused by it.
 
Hey JimmyM,

I'm curious about what your LH technique looks like. You have always been an advocate of one finger per fret, and have said elsewhere that you have pretty small hands and find it comfortable and easy, even in the first 5 frets.
it's not that I don't believe you or am trying to argue: I got smallish hands, and My experience has always been that 1234 fingering in the lower frets cause undue stress.
So It seems you must be doing things in your approach to reduce excess strain.
Have you ever made a pic or vid of your technique?
nope. i have a skin condition and taking closeups of my hands is the last thing i would ever do. but i absolutely do things to reduce the strain. i keep my thumb behind the neck, i keep my fingers curved, and my hand as relaxed as i can. i used to take lessons from dave larue, so watch him and that's basically what i do.

Are you using a short scale (I seem to recall Not)?
what's the break angle of your wrist -how straight is it?
when you make a 4 or 5 fret stretch are you using your thumb to pivot, and moving your palm, or is it all just splayed fingers?

Mostly just curious to witness how relaxed your LH is ...
long scale mostly, though i do enjoy my beatle bass copy. wrist i try to keep straight but sometimes i bend it forward just a little, and i really only pivot when doing the 5 fret stretch. i've been doing it so long it's second nature to me now.
 
Thanks for all the hints. Things I'll definitely try:

  • One finger per fret (OFPF, I now know) for the higher notes
  • Practice OFPF on one fret lower than I can comfortably go and work on stretching from there
  • Using 124 otherwise
  • Finding a teacher to view what I'm doing in real life (and perhaps to adjust the action on my bass)

On a related note, then... BG for Dummies has an early exercise with root-3rd-5th. Using OFPF, he has 2nd finger on the 3rd fret on the A string (to play a C for the root), 1st finger on the 2nd fret of the D string for the third and 4th finger on the 5th fret of the D string for the fifth.

G --------------
D ----1--4------
A -2------------
E --------------


How does one accomplish this with 124 fingering? Do you move the hand so that you still hit the fifth with the fourth finger? (In C, I can play an open G string, but this method doesn't translate to other keys.)

I'd say it's very important for you to learn to do that particular shape or pattern. You will use it a hell of a lot. It might be easier for you to start somewhere a little higher up the neck.
 
Jimmy - all I can say is it hurts me when I try OFPF, just like I feel a 35" scale. I know there's only like 3 people in the world who notice these things, but pain is your bodies way of saying be careful. Some pain you can "Work through" and some you shouldn't. I'm just sayin...
 
Somehow the perception persists that you're not allowed to move your fretting hand whilst applying OFPT (and I fell for that trap too). Later on I've realised that I've never seen that rule written down anywhere. Move your hand closer to the next fret when you're switching from the 1- 4 finger and vice versa. It can be done amazingly fast with the necessary practice.

Playing chords whilst fretting with the 1st & 4th finger simultaneously is something different of course - and one of the many good reasons for training the index & pinky fingers to stretch as far as humanly possible.
 
Watch some of havic5 fives videos this one is good for hand position. He also has another one about 1 finger per fret which is also good.

weeeeeeell...i know HE thinks it's good. and to be honest, his vids are a big step above most home-produced instruction vids. but i thought he went to great lengths to make a point about ofpf being dangerous. the hand position he used to demonstrate how "unsafe" it is was a pretty gross distortion of real world usage.
 
Jimmy - all I can say is it hurts me when I try OFPF, just like I feel a 35" scale. I know there's only like 3 people in the world who notice these things, but pain is your bodies way of saying be careful. Some pain you can "Work through" and some you shouldn't. I'm just sayin...
fair enough, steve. i think i could teach it to you where you could do it safely, though.
 
Personally, IMO, It think that when people complain about pains from a four-fret pinky stretch, its because they think they need to keep all their fingers on all the frets, or they think they need to squeeze the crap out of the neck because they think their pinky is weak.

If you let go of the fret your first finger is on and roll your wrist when you pinky-fret, it will be a lot easier and you won't get that raptor claw thing going on that destroys your wrist.

A good setup doesn't hurt either.
 
Once I built the strength/flexibility up, I haven't had any issues in 30+ years of playing. It just takes time. Funny how humbling it can be for a friend of mine to pick up a bass and try to finger it...

Of course, it helped that I started on piano at age 5 - so I was used to stretching for octaves...
 
....they think they need to keep all their fingers on all the frets, or they think they need to squeeze the crap out of the neck because they think their pinky is weak.

Move your hand closer to the next fret when you're switching from the 1- 4 finger and vice versa. It can be done amazingly fast with the necessary practice.

I think these two points get lost most of the time.
even in a single position, moving your left hand up and down (ie towards/away form the headstock) in order to reach the fret is totally allowed.
Freezing your thumb, wrist and palm in place and trying make the stretch with just your fingers is probably a likely source of strain.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnSev
....they think they need to keep all their fingers on all the frets, or they think they need to squeeze the crap out of the neck because they think their pinky is weak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobie
Move your hand closer to the next fret when you're switching from the 1- 4 finger and vice versa. It can be done amazingly fast with the necessary practice.
I think these two points get lost most of the time.

Originally Posted by mambo4
I think these two points get lost most of the time.
even in a single position, moving your left hand up and down (ie towards/away form the headstock) in order to reach the fret is totally allowed.
Freezing your thumb, wrist and palm in place and trying make the stretch with just your fingers is probably a likely source of strain.


Good points, but to me, this is not a pure OFPF system. It's been modified to fit a BG with a 34" scale length, by allowing this "wiggle". That's fine. But it is not the exact same OFPF system people used on a 25" 6 string guitar, because there, there is no "wiggle". There, a player can trill an F and Ab on the E strings 1-4, or octave Ab's 4-1, without an audible wiggle.


All sorts of techniques can be used to play an instrument. What technique we use often depends on the sound we are going for (that wiggle is audible), the actual musical lines we are playing, the physical sensations in our bodies, the instrument we playing, other things too. People should learn and practice all these different physical manners of playing while practicing good ergonomics. If we pay attention to our body senses, we can feel good ergonomics when it happens.

I use OFPF even in the first position, if I need to use it for the musical lines I want to play. But since I know what I'm going to play and plan the lines a moment in advance, if I'm playing an F and I want my next note to be a C, and I know I won't play a Db after it, but a Bb, I'll grab the C with my 4th finger. But if I also know that I want a Db or an Octave F after the C, I'll grab the C with my third finger. Make your choices.

OFPF 1-2-3-4 is a guitar method, (cello too, but without the frets..), while 1-2-4 with constant use of open strings and position shifts is a double bass method. As players of a fretted electric bass guitar, we can access both traditions and mix and match as needed for sound. A fretless player will need to use 1-2-4 more often before 1-2-3-4 will sound good. The point where 1-2-3-4 will sound good to me is the point where I can play a 3 position span of 1-4 on any string without a wiggle. Obviously, I'm not a fan of the sound of a wiggle.
 
Good points, but to me, this is not a pure OFPF system. It's been modified to fit a BG with a 34" scale length, by allowing this "wiggle". That's fine. But it is not the exact same OFPF system people used on a 25" 6 string guitar, because there, there is no "wiggle". There, a player can trill an F and Ab on the E strings 1-4, or octave Ab's 4-1, without an audible wiggle.

I would say that in reality, there's no such thing as a "pure" OFPF system, in the sense you seem to mean. There is no system that mandates one finger and only one finger per fret.

I would go farther and say that in a sense, there is not even a OFPF "system" at all. There's no fingering police. The point of working on OFPF is to develop your capacity for using all of your fingers, and doing so over a reasonable stretch. Not to stretch your fingering system on some Procrustean bed of conformity.

This is a commonly misunderstood point, and I wish it were better understood.

If you want to talk about guitar fingering, I've been playing guitar for 40 years and I can tell you that in classical guitar at least, although you are taught to hold your hand in such a way as to enable you to do OFPF, and you are taught common scale fingerings that make use of that type of fingering, this is for training and exercise as much as actual use. There is no mandate saying that when it comes to playing actual music, you have to use 1-3 when you go from, say fret 2 to fret 4. It just is not that rigid. technique is only a means for achieving a result. If the situation suggests that you're better off using 1-4 for that, or even 1-2, then that's what you do.

The thing about learning OFPF is that it's difficult to use something you haven't practiced. When you focus solely on 1-2-4 in lower positions, you are making yourself NOT use the 3. Should you then want to use the 3 in that setting, it's likely to be harder for you to do so ... because you haven't practiced it. You may be able to get by perfectly well without it, but it remains a fact that you are not practicing the use of the 3 in the lower positions.

OTOH, it's easier to NOT do something you do know how to do than it is to do something you don't know how to do. That is, many of us think it is better to have a capability you don't always use than to lack a capability you may occasionally want to have. Hence OFPF. If you can easily use your 3 everywhere, you can decide when not to use it. But if you haven't developed your 3 as much, you have less capability to decide when and where to use it; you will be limited to some extent by your relative lack of practice with it.

Again, and I can't stress this enough, OFPF is not some rigid system that mandates you do finger stretches in one and only one way. That's a fundamental misunderstanding IMO. Rather, it is a means of inculcating the capability to use of all of your fingers on all parts of the neck, as you consider necessary. Again, you can't effectively use what you don't practice.

None of this, in any way, means that OFPF is obligatory or that you can't be any good if you don't use it. It does mean that there's a point to it, and that it's not what folks sometimes think it is.