Double Bass String height and adjustable bridge: Arco and pizz

[MagnificentB]

This forum has provided me with some great info and advice in the past, so I am going to pose a new question for all of you...About 6 months ago I purchased a '65 Kay M1 which needed a new bass bar. I had the luthier also install a new non-adjustable bridge and do a setup for me.

I've been taking lessons and my teacher thinks the action is a bit on the high side. He suggested I get an adjustable bridge since I am starting to do a bit of arco as well as pizz. I have ordered one from Gollihur Music, and I was wondering if I should give my luthier any special instructions with respect to string height or radius for the new bridge. I was thinking I would have her use the current action as reference for the "high side" of the bridge adjustment. But then, looking through some older threads, I see string height measured at the end of the fingerboard in millimeters anywhere from 7mm to 13mm with 9mm being most popular. I measured 5/8" or 15+mm" on the G... and 17+mm on the E...that seems REALLY high. That's not helping my playing, to be sure.

I understand that bridge radius is largely (totally?) dependent on neck radius, or am I mistaken?

Can I have the best of all worlds: Low action, great tone and volume, easily bowed strings, or am I asking for too much?

Okay, so that's more than one question.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

I had the luthier also install a new non-adjustable bridge and do a setup for me.

Can I have the best of all worlds: Low action, great tone and volume, easily bowed strings, or am I asking for too much?

)

You are not asking for too much. My strings are 5-8mm, G-E and work well at that height.

However, have your luthier install aluminum adjusters in the bridge he just made for you. That is the proper way to do it as it is already fitted to the bass. Precut adjustable bridges get the thumbs down from most on this forum. Now that I think of it, it's strange to me that your luthier left your strings at that very high height. Is he a real bass luthier?

 

[Fretless55]

15mm on the G and 17mm on the E does seem really high for pretty much anything.
It's great you have a teacher and luthier you like. Since you're putting on a new bridge anyway it be a good idea to try some other basses and get an idea of what your string height preference would be. But to me anything over 10mm seems high.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Most luthiers are not happy with adjustable bridges ordered from somewhere.
The best way to make an adjustable bridge ist to make a normal bridge fitting to the top and then install the adjusters. A bridge with adjusters that is not already fitted to YOUR bass is hard to fit to any bass, because the adjusters make it really hard to fit due to turning of the bridge feet. So many luthiers don't accept fitting bridges with installed adjusters.
Maybe you can give the bridge with the adjusters back?

 

[MagnificentB]

Perhaps I should clarify: My luthier could not source an adjustable bridge from their supplier, so she said if I got one, she would fit it to my bass, that is, cut and shape it to fit my bass. I'm talking about buying something off the shelf and slapping it on my bass. She is a bass luthier among many other things (guitar, violin, etc.) And we're not talking about a $35k carved bass being played in the New York Symphony, I'm a newbie with an old Kay bass.

I'm really trying to get a feel for the best type of setup for the kind of playing I'm doing while learning, which is a combination of arco and pizz.

I have not seen any negative threads with respect to adjustable bridges on TB. My teacher plays everything from avant jazz to classical and has an adjustable bridge on his carved bass. He makes his living playing bass, and I decided to try an adjustable bridge because he suggested it.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Perhaps I should clarify: My luthier could not source an adjustable bridge from their supplier, so she said if I got one, she would fit it to my bass.

I'm really trying to get a feel for the best type of setup for the kind of playing I'm doing which is a combination of arco and pizz.

I repeat, it is not recommended to buy and fit an already cut bridge. Have your luthier cut the new bridge she fit already. She can buy the adjusters anywhere. You did say she already installed a new solid bridge, didn't you? The fact that she didn't recommend this leads me to think she is inexperienced. Maybe you should ask for bass luthier recommendations in your area?

 

[MagnificentB]

Okay Eric. I did a search on TB for "adjustable bridge" and I have seen many, many threads with many people commenting, and other than preference for one over the other (adjustable vs non-adjustable) I have not seen any negative or anti-adjustable bridge comments. I'm putting an adjustable bridge on my bass because my bass teacher (whom I know and respect and makes his living playing bass) suggested it.

I ordered the bridge from Gollihur Music (another source that I know and respect):

http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1158-3_4_UPRIGHT_BASS_ADJUSTABLE_BRIDGE.html

This is all really way off the point, but thanks anyway.

 

[Sam Evans]

I mix my time between jazz and classical, and I've found that 6mm G - 9mm E is a good compromise. If I were jazz (pizz) only, I'd probably want to go 1 or 2 mm lower, but at that point, I don't feel like I can dig in with my bow as much as I'd like without more buzz than I care to hear.
I also have an adjustable bridge, and I think you're correct that there's really no reason to avoid one. Perhaps there's some theoretical disadvantage, but I doubt anyone could hear it.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Okay Eric. I did a search on TB for "adjustable bridge" and I have seen many, many threads with many people commenting, and other than preference for one over the other (adjustable vs non-adjustable) I have not seen any negative or anti-adjustable bridge comments. I'm putting an adjustable bridge on my bass because my bass teacher (whom I know and respect and makes his living playing bass) suggested it.

I ordered the bridge from Gollihur Music (another source that I know and respect):

http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1158-3_4_UPRIGHT_BASS_ADJUSTABLE_BRIDGE.html

You're completely missing my point. I don't know how to make it any clearer, and I have adjustable bridges on my basses.

I will try one more time. Get your current solid bridge cut for adjusters by a luthier who has done this many times before so that the job turns out well.

 

[MagnificentB]

I mix my time between jazz and classical, and I've found that 6mm G - 9mm E is a good compromise. If I were jazz (pizz) only, I'd probably want to go 1 or 2 mm lower, but at that point, I don't feel like I can dig in with my bow as much as I'd like without more buzz than I care to hear.
I also have an adjustable bridge, and I think you're correct that there's really no reason to avoid one. Perhaps there's some theoretical disadvantage, but I doubt anyone could hear it.

Thanks, krieder, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

I'm sure there are purists who think that adjustable bridges are some kind of heresy, and they probably feel the same way about amplifying a double bass or putting mayonnaise on french fries.

 

[Sam Evans]

... putting mayonnaise on french fries.

Well, now you've gone too far!

I should also say: It sounds as though you'll be lowering your action quite a bit. You may find that your bass needs some overall set-up work - there may be some irregularities on the fingerboard that aren't apparent with a very high action, but that would cause some buzzing with a more reasonable action. A good tech should be able to do some planing and sanding for you to optimize things, as well as install your new bridge, which will undoubtedly need some fitting to your bass top.

Good luck!

 

[Freddels]

I think what Eric is trying to tell you is: Do not buy a whole new adjustable bridge. The luthier will have to fit it to your bass by shaping the feet to the top and shaping the bridge to the radius of the fingerboard. He's telling you to have your luthier take the bridge that she already fitted to your bass, cut the legs on it and install adjusters (that she can purchase). It'll be a lot more cost effective for you.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

MAGGIE BEE - please carefully read Eric's posts. Consider your handkerchief, you would like to have a handkerchief embroidered with your initials. Now you could certainly search the inter webs for folks who sell embroidered handkerchiefs to find one with your initials. BUT, and here's Eric's point, since you ALREADY have a handkerchief that you like, just get that one embroidered. This is a common procedure and, I have to say, I'm extremely surprised that your luthier didn't suggest this.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

I think what Eric is trying to tell you is: Do not buy a whole new adjustable bridge. The luthier will have to fit it to your bass by shaping the feet to the top and shaping the bridge to the radius of the fingerboard. He's telling you to have your luthier take the bridge that she already fitted to your bass, cut the legs on it and install adjusters (that she can purchase). It'll be a lot more cost effective for you.

+1 Thank you!

 

[Phil Rowan]

Get your current solid bridge cut for adjusters by a luthier who has done this many times before so that the job turns out well.

+100. If you want your bass to play its best (so that you can improve on it rather than be hindered by a poor set up) go to someone that specializes in double basses only. We're really just trying to help you here. There have been a number of nightmare threads over the years where someone has taken a double basses with plenty of potential to someone who isn't an expert bass luthier only to result in some awful stuff.

Really, we don't mean any disrespect when we suggest these things, we're just trying to steer you in the right direction (and Kays are great basses.. I have one myself and love it dearly. Of course, it doesn't hurt that I've had it set up by a well qualified double bass luthier who has done work on my bass teacher's amazing old bass).

 

[Phil Rowan]

I think what Eric is trying to tell you is: Do not buy a whole new adjustable bridge. The luthier will have to fit it to your bass by shaping the feet to the top and shaping the bridge to the radius of the fingerboard. He's telling you to have your luthier take the bridge that she already fitted to your bass, cut the legs on it and install adjusters (that she can purchase). It'll be a lot more cost effective for you.

+1!!!

MAGGIE BEE - please carefully read Eric's posts. Consider your handkerchief, you would like to have a handkerchief embroidered with your initials. Now you could certainly search the inter webs for folks who sell embroidered handkerchiefs to find one with your initials. BUT, and here's Eric's point, since you ALREADY have a handkerchief that you like, just get that one embroidered. This is a common procedure and, I have to say, I'm extremely surprised that your luthier didn't suggest this.

+1!!!

 

[MagnificentB]

MAGGIE BEE - please carefully read Eric's posts. Consider your handkerchief, you would like to have a handkerchief embroidered with your initials. Now you could certainly search the inter webs for folks who sell embroidered handkerchiefs to find one with your initials. BUT, and here's Eric's point, since you ALREADY have a handkerchief that you like, just get that one embroidered. This is a common procedure and, I have to say, I'm extremely surprised that your luthier didn't suggest this.

Oh I totally get it, Ed. I got it the first time. And Gollihur sells the adjusters on their own. And that's a possibility. Have my handkerchief embroidered (nice metaphor) rather than buy a new, embroidered handkerchief.

What I was looking for (and I've stated this a bunch of times already and cannot possibly make it any CLEARER) is feedback in terms of string height, bridge radius, not advice on how to go about installing adjusters on the my current bridge or whether to get a new bridge with adjusters, so I think Eric missed my point completely. Phew.

 

[MagnificentB]

+100. If you want your bass to play its best (so that you can improve on it rather than be hindered by a poor set up) go to someone that specializes in double basses only. We're really just trying to help you here. There have been a number of nightmare threads over the years where someone has taken a double basses with plenty of potential to someone who isn't an expert bass luthier only to result in some awful stuff.

Really, we don't mean any disrespect when we suggest these things, we're just trying to steer you in the right direction (and Kays are great basses.. I have one myself and love it dearly. Of course, it doesn't hurt that I've had it set up by a well qualified double bass luthier who has done work on my bass teacher's amazing old bass).

I understand, and I appreciate the feedback, that's why I posted the thread, but so far I'm mostly getting advice on the embroidery, not the handkerchief (thanks Ed Fuqua).

 

[MagnificentB]

Well, now you've gone too far!

I would never personally do such a thing, but I will defend your right to do so!

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Radius should match the fingerboard curve, that should go without saying. As far as string height, that's about like asking me what waist size you should buy. What do you have now? Is that where you want it? If so, you'll want that to be NOT the lowest or the highest point in the adjuster range. That way, if there are seasonal changes with your bass, you have roomto manuver either way. Again, personally, after having had a new bridge installed in 05, I haven't had to move it up or down at all. My bass seems pretty stable, I never had any sound post problems with season changes either.
But there's no one size fits all, you wouldn't be comfortable with how high I have my strings, I wouldn't be comfortable with how low you have yours.
As far as sound, that's pretty different from bass to bass. Some basses still project well with low action, some don't. Some basses get loud with higher action, some just sound choked. The thing that most of us have done is find the string height that the bass sounds best at and either develop the technique to play it or decide that it's unplayable for us and get another bass. The only guideline I would suggest is being able to play every string arco from low to high without getting any fingerboard rattle. And, again, that's going to be different from bass to bass.