Double Bass string length reduction?

[shwashwa]

is there any downside to slightly reducing the string length of a bass other than the fact that the heel wont be in the same spot in relation to the notes anymore?
(tension, sound etc?)

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

This depends on the Bass in question as well as all the related measurements and some you may think unrelated.

I have had many Basses reduced in one way or another and the 'upside' should be playability. If you can't play the Bass then 5 or 10% of sound change doesn't matter. Shorter, the response might be quicker. Longer, it might be slower or even deeper.

Tell us more about the actual bass and post some pics as well. There are several factors involved and many ways to achieve this. Some are quick and easy and some require a great master Luthier as well as the expense that goes along with it.

I recently played a beautiful old Italian bass in NY that is attributed to C.G Testore but the Scroll is either replaced or the Bass is not Testore. The Scroll is more of a Ruggieri or another Cremona maker of the period.

On this Bass, the F-hole eyes were filled in and moved up and then the Fs re-cut. This was done before we were all born! It would take some smart science to re-create the old FFs to ID the Bass. The Fs were moved in order to shorten the string length. The Bass was not cut down though in the shoulders.

Moving the FFs is quite rare as cutting the shoulders is more common and still a bigger job.

Cheating the Bridge up is one method. A false Nut another, Dropping the Neck into the block another and a neck graft with a shorter span another as well.

Any one or combination of these methods can be used to make a string length more player-friendly. Which method is best for your Bass is to be determined. What is best for the bass is not always the cheapest way.

 

[shwashwa]

thanks for the reply. i wasnt thinking of a huge job like that on a particularly expensive bass... i was thinking of lowering the nut a 1/2-3/4 of an inch on a very nice old kay bass that's just a bit longer than i'm used to. perhaps even taking alittle wood out of the heel if necessary to maintain the D neck. disregarding the heel for now, is there any downside to just dropping the nut a touch?

This depends on the Bass in question as well as all the related measurements and some you may think unrelated.

I have had many Basses reduced in one way or another and the 'upside' should be playability. If you can't play the Bass then 5 or 10% of sound change doesn't matter. Shorter, the response might be quicker. Longer, it might be slower or even deeper.

Tell us more about the actual bass and post some pics as well. There are several factors involved and many ways to achieve this. Some are quick and easy and some require a great master Luthier as well as the expense that goes along with it.

I recently played a beautiful old Italian bass in NY that is attributed to C.G Testore but the Scroll is either replaced or the Bass is not Testore. The Scroll is more of a Ruggieri or another Cremona maker of the period.

On this Bass, the F-hole eyes were filled in and moved up and then the Fs re-cut. This was done before we were all born! It would take some smart science to re-create the old FFs to ID the Bass. The Fs were moved in order to shorten the string length. The Bass was not cut down though in the shoulders.

Moving the FFs is quite rare as cutting the shoulders is more common and still a bigger job.

Cheating the Bridge up is one method. A false Nut another, Dropping the Neck into the block another and a neck graft with a shorter span another as well.

Any one or combination of these methods can be used to make a string length more player-friendly. Which method is best for your Bass is to be determined. What is best for the bass is not always the cheapest way.

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

thanks for the reply. i wasnt thinking of a huge job like that on a particularly expensive bass... i was thinking of lowering the nut a 1/2-3/4 of an inch on a very nice old kay bass that's just a bit longer than i'm used to. perhaps even taking alittle wood out of the heel if necessary to maintain the D neck. disregarding the heel for now, is there any downside to just dropping the nut a touch?

Moving the Nut pushes the 'D' further down at the heel unless it's an Eb and you want a D. What is the current string length? What is the condition of the Top as far as any sinkage. Is the Bridge good and/or recently made by a good bass luthier?

'Just' dropping the Nut is not as easy as it sounds. It is still a skilled job regardless. I have done at least two myself so I can tell you from Experience. Both of the Bass I recall were either an Eb or between D and Eb at the heel. The string lengths were also long. But making a 'False' Nut inlaid half way into the Fingerboard and connecting it with the existing Nut I corrected both problems for the most part.

This is not a job for a beginner.

 

[Matthew Tucker]

I shortened a 44" scale with a neck spline graft to 42" for my daughter,. This turned the neck into an E neck I think, but it doesn't bother us too much. We both play it and other basses, both Eb and D, and just adjust. If you know what it is, you compensate.

One day I'll get around to trimming the heel.

 

[forester]

my bass came with a one piece false nut overlain and contoured with the FB...takes a full inch off of the SL. seems quite effective,and least intrusive.

 

[shwashwa]

Moving the Nut pushes the 'D' further down at the heel unless it's an Eb and you want a D. What is the current string length? What is the condition of the Top as far as any sinkage. Is the Bridge good and/or recently made by a good bass luthier?

'Just' dropping the Nut is not as easy as it sounds. It is still a skilled job regardless. I have done at least two myself so I can tell you from Experience. Both of the Bass I recall were either an Eb or between D and Eb at the heel. The string lengths were also long. But making a 'False' Nut inlaid half way into the Fingerboard and connecting it with the existing Nut I corrected both problems for the most part.

This is not a job for a beginner.

of course i'm not planning on doing the work myself... so that part isnt an issue, and i realize that the position of the heel will change in relation to the notes on the fingerboard (actually it's the notes that will change position), but disregarding that, is there a possible negative effect to doing this? i want to go from 42" to 41.5" or so. i know a shorter string length means you dont have to tighten the strings as much to get to pitch, so would a half inch make a huge difference on tension and therefore tone?
i guess a simple experiment would be to tune the bass about a half step flat ( the approximate amount of pitch that a half an inch would yeild i guess) and see how the bass plays...

 

[Jake deVilliers]

If you're only looking to lose 1/2" from your string length, just move the bridge up the required distance and retune.

In a perfect world you'd re-tune your afterlengths as well, but moving the bridge is a good start.

 

[Gearhead43]

If you move the bridge, wouldn't you possibly need a soundpost adjust and reset?

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

If you move the bridge, wouldn't you possibly need a soundpost adjust and reset?

Yes, maybe. Depends on where the post is now.

For 1/2" yes, just move the bridge up. The neck/heel note should be slightly different as well afterwards. If 42" is the normal length then don't do anything else. This way, it can always go back.

Also, a shorter length might feel tighter depending. Shorter is stiffer and longer flexes more... Depending on this, that and the other thing!

Most of the string length shortening problems occur when you have 43" to 44" or more. Then several steps must be done to get the right length and keep it playable.

On one Bass I have the string length was 44". The Bass itself is huge and the shoulders very wide. The be able to play the F# and G comfortably over the shoulders a specific measurement was needed to be met from the shoulder area where your left arm goes to the foot of the bridge.

The Shoulders at the block were cut 1", block area only. The Neck was dropped an additional inch into the modified neck block and the bridge cheated up to sit with the back of the feet just above the line of the notches.

The Bass also got a new Neck graft slightly shorter, the Neck brought out more and pitched somewhat a little less than before. All of this combined work turned a huge hard to play 7/8 or 4/4 (5/4 by some European standards) into a very playable Bass under 42" string length with a huge Body under it.

Only a 1/2"? Easy work..lol

 

[paulunger]

Shwashwa,
I've changed the string length on many basses and have never experience much change in the sound.
Move your bridge up 1/2 inch and see if you like it. You can get a new soundpost made fairly easily.
You can also add a 1/2 inch of false nut and this would keep your 'D' stop in the same place it is now and would decrease your string length a full inch.
Good luck.