What are the reasons behind different string lengths? What would be the advantage/disadvantage between a bass with a 40.5" scale length and a bass with a 43.5"? Are shorter string lengths easier to play? Do you lose any tone with a shorter length?
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Double Bass String Length
- Thread starter anightintunisia
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Some 5ths tuning players use shorter ( like 38" - 40" ) scale with normal size body. Advantages in playability are quite obvious, easy reach for the left hand, easy to play arco closer to the bridge, easy to play pizz at the end of the fingerboard. Here`s one:
Longer string scales work better with low notes. The reason is that the length - diameter ratio is greater. Also you can use thinner strings (with the same type and material of construction) to get an even better ratio with the same tension as the shorter scale instrument.
This is most important with the low B string on a five string bass like played in Europe, a bit less even with the E string or an extended C.
Also the body of a larger scale instrument is usually bigger than on a shorter one (with exception, of course), which gives a better resonance and more volume for the notes approximately below the open A (depends on the instrument).
The 5-string basses of the WDR symphony in Cologne, Germany have up to 115 cm vibrating string length on their 5-string basses, I was told. Played with Spiro Mittel 4/4 they have a huge sound, but I'm I wouldn't be able to play them due to string tension (and I have a 4/4 110 cm 5-string as my main instrument).
With 5ths tuning, it's more a matter of being able to play 4-finger-system or having shorter jumps. So they prefer shorter scales. Also the strings are often lighter which helps playing 4-finger-system. (But 4-finger system is not the standard, just convenient, specially if the player does cello too.)
This is most important with the low B string on a five string bass like played in Europe, a bit less even with the E string or an extended C.
Also the body of a larger scale instrument is usually bigger than on a shorter one (with exception, of course), which gives a better resonance and more volume for the notes approximately below the open A (depends on the instrument).
The 5-string basses of the WDR symphony in Cologne, Germany have up to 115 cm vibrating string length on their 5-string basses, I was told. Played with Spiro Mittel 4/4 they have a huge sound, but I'm I wouldn't be able to play them due to string tension (and I have a 4/4 110 cm 5-string as my main instrument).
With 5ths tuning, it's more a matter of being able to play 4-finger-system or having shorter jumps. So they prefer shorter scales. Also the strings are often lighter which helps playing 4-finger-system. (But 4-finger system is not the standard, just convenient, specially if the player does cello too.)
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My bass has a 38" string length. It's a small instrument. For me, having a smaller bass with a shorter string length was essential since I am a petite person. I previously owned a 3/4 bass with a 42" string length and I always struggled. It was harder for me to get around the bass and certain intervals actually caused me pain.
When I started looking for a new bass, the one I have now was exactly what I was looking for. However, it had been sitting in the shop for several years, undoubtedly because if its size. What's perfect for me feels like a toy to others.
Although the bass is small, it has a powerful lower register with a bright upper end, but I realize that isn't the norm.
When I started looking for a new bass, the one I have now was exactly what I was looking for. However, it had been sitting in the shop for several years, undoubtedly because if its size. What's perfect for me feels like a toy to others.
Although the bass is small, it has a powerful lower register with a bright upper end, but I realize that isn't the norm.
I'm in the same boat, basses that are comfortable for me are to small for others. What kind of bass is your new one?
It's an Italian bass from the 1850's, unknown maker. Do you have a bass now, or are you looking for a smaller one?
Isn't there a certain Nashville bassist who plays on a small bass?
Go with what's comfortable. I play a 4/4 bass but my string length is 40.5. It makes a bass with enormous shoulders (which are hard to play around if you aren't big) much more manageable than other basses in the same boat that have 43-44" string lengths... No one is going to walk up to you mid rehearsal and measure your string length... most people wouldn't even know the difference from stage...
Lauren for example in her newest video, that bass looks like any other basses string length and size. Beautiful playing as always Lauren! *sidetrack* hopefully I can get something online soon *sidetrack*
Shorter string lengths have been used to solve problems with resonant frequency, spacing, and after string length (which effects the resonant frequency). The nice thing is, from what I have seen the prices on instruments with shorter string lengths are generally lower, I guess due to less demand they do sit longer.
The main problems I can foresee would be the spacing could be too small and could hurt your hand, like a mouse that's too small you could be setting yourself up for tendinitis if not checked out by a professional.
If you can have someone who knows ergonomics (Alexander Technique) there watch you, it may be easier to make a decision. It could be an issue with current playing techniques or it could be that physically you need a smaller instrument...
I will be the first one to tell you that. I had back pain playing a smaller 3/4 as soon as I went to a bigger bass my pain went away, I was over stretching my arms and back, using muscles that shouldn't have been used and straining them, so much so I am still recovering from tears almost a year later. The big ribs actually give my body places to hit, like speed bumps to say no dont do that!
I also found sitting to be better for me because I had a tendency to hunch when I stand and play, bending with my back and not my hips... A problem too many of us see: remember Edicson Ruiz wears a lower back belt, and he's a young guy.
I have a 1920's Czech carved top and sides, ply flatback. It has a 41.5" scale length which is okay, but I still struggle. The neck is abnormally large, my hand gets tired pretty quick when I'm in the lower register like playing in key of B, especially if I'm not warmed up. I'm thinking of having a bass built soon, with a smaller neck and shorter scale length but keeping the standard 3/4 body size.
Thank you!
And do it. YouTube is so great for putting yourself out there.Interesting. I have a couple friends with enormous hands that play smaller basses. This hasn't been a problem for them, but that of course doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Have you had experiences with a shorter string length causing pain? If so, what do you think is the cause for the pain?
I know that feel, man. Playing with a longer string length is tiring. I'm sure that neck is just making everything worse. Large necks can do a number on your hands, no matter the string length.
Best of luck! I'm sure you can either find or commission a bass with a smaller neck and shorter string length that you love.
Thank you!
Interesting. I have a couple friends with enormous hands that play smaller basses. This hasn't been a problem for them, but that of course doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Have you had experiences with a shorter string length causing pain? If so, what do you think is the cause for the pain?
I have had experiences with a shorter string length causing pain, mainly because of my massive mits. I see my 40.5 as small for me, I never really have to stretch, and when I am out of tune 50% of the time its because I am over stretching an 50% is because I am over shifting, which you can teach yourself out of. The reason I went with the 40.5 was because in the lowest position I didn't have to stretch at all, my hand was relaxed and 1 and 4 were where they needed to be, which could be a sizing technique... (If it becomes one let it be known as the Feigenbaum Sizing technique lol)
Due to events with my back, I am always aware of the body's signs and doing what the body is comfortable with. When I was trying basses before I bought my current one I played a bass with a 38.5 string length the school had (they claimed it was Italian, yet it was clearly a Swanson bass)... Anyway I kept noticing my hand in lower positions was scrunched, and I felt strain in my wrist, I knew I would never get notes in tune and I would have to either manage pain or risk hurting myself. I did try a 44" string length and I can tell you it was insanely hard to play in half and first positions, but nice up in thumb because of spacing. I didn't want to even consider it though, in the back of my head something told me that the next owner of the bass 80 years from now would chop it down.
I quess that the body size has something to do with sound, acoustic volume and feel?
Edit: Tomoya Aomori uses finger per semitone -4-finger technique, that`s also why shorter string lenght, I believe. Joel Quarrington tries to keep his left hand as small as possible, his technique allows him to play just about any string lenght.
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At some point it starts to sound like they're just playing an oversized cello.
Anyways, I didn't want to make this about a 5ths vs. 4ths thread.
My leanings into using the NoAmp for jazz makes me wonder if going to an even larger scale length will yield a bigger sound. I likely won't do it since I'm already at 42" but wouldn't going to a 43" likely yield an even bigger sound? (at the cost of playability obviously).
Anyways, I didn't want to make this about a 5ths vs. 4ths thread.
My leanings into using the NoAmp for jazz makes me wonder if going to an even larger scale length will yield a bigger sound. I likely won't do it since I'm already at 42" but wouldn't going to a 43" likely yield an even bigger sound? (at the cost of playability obviously).
I would say it is not really bigger, that's the body, but the low strings have better sustain and sound, since they are longer and probably thinner.
But don't forget that the same strings have a higher tension on the longer scale.
5 cm (2 inches) are almost the same as going from light to medium tension strings. And Spiros or Superflexible don't help if you already use the 4/4 version.
But don't forget that the same strings have a higher tension on the longer scale.
5 cm (2 inches) are almost the same as going from light to medium tension strings. And Spiros or Superflexible don't help if you already use the 4/4 version.
But it's not all about tension either. Too much tension and the bass chokes. My preferences have been lighter intrinsic tension with the strings (currently Garbo's and a Gut G) but raise them up high.
My subjective experience tells me that higher string heights allow the strings to vibrate more fully - that each string has a particular sweet spot in terms of height and tension that varies with a given bass. Don't we want a bigger fundamental/amplitude? At some point the scale length will overcome playability but why not increase scale length while using lighter strings?
My subjective experience tells me that higher string heights allow the strings to vibrate more fully - that each string has a particular sweet spot in terms of height and tension that varies with a given bass. Don't we want a bigger fundamental/amplitude? At some point the scale length will overcome playability but why not increase scale length while using lighter strings?
I've read that if you have a C-extension the string can't vibrate the right way with a shorter scale length. Can anyone elaborate?
Lighter strings is what I meant with thinner strings (using the same string family).
I play a 110cm scale instrument and usually try to use lighter strings on it to get a medium tension. Of course string height is important too. You have to find the best personal compromise between tension and string height, but this is generally the case.
Tuning up by a halftone gives a good impression how the same string behaves on a 5 cm (2 inches) longer scale. For 2.5 cm (1 inch) tune up a quarter tone. Think of it as a longer scale instrument with a capo.
A C-extension is made for a certain string length. (The extension length is a fraction of the normal string length.) If you change the string length, the C-extension has to be changed too. This can get complicated if the extension uses capos or keys. You might need a new extension then.
I play a 110cm scale instrument and usually try to use lighter strings on it to get a medium tension. Of course string height is important too. You have to find the best personal compromise between tension and string height, but this is generally the case.
Tuning up by a halftone gives a good impression how the same string behaves on a 5 cm (2 inches) longer scale. For 2.5 cm (1 inch) tune up a quarter tone. Think of it as a longer scale instrument with a capo.
A C-extension is made for a certain string length. (The extension length is a fraction of the normal string length.) If you change the string length, the C-extension has to be changed too. This can get complicated if the extension uses capos or keys. You might need a new extension then.
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I'm sure the bass, like myself, doesn't necessarily like the Texas climates, but it seems to be dealing with it well. I just have to be careful - the AC/Heating units in the apartments I've lived in haven't always been the best, so the temperatures can change quite drastically.
