String numbering convention

[Jogobass]

I've been playing bass for about 30 years, initially self taught, but later had some lessons. Now what always confuses me is the convention to number the strings from high to low. Meaning that the G string is number one and E string is 4th string. This happens in the guitar world too, with the high E being called the first string. I've looked it up in english and in my native language, Dutch. And it's being taught the same regardless of language. For me, the lowest string has logically been the first string, and the highest string is the 4th (or 5th, or 6th) string.

Also, I've come across people who call playing up the neck (higher notes) playing down the neck. This is apparent in some instructions by teachers. Leading to confusing statements like: play down the neck toward the 12th fret and the notes will become higher.

I was wondering where this convention started, and what the logic behind it is, for the people that have been taught and are teaching this way?

I originally learned musical notes on a keyboard, where the notes from low to high are from left to right, just like our reading in western countries. For some reason I find it logical to see the bass (or guitar) that way. Left to right is low to high. And the low string is the first string, also because counting the notes goes from low to high in most instructional material. (for left handed players left and right reverse, but low to high is still the same)

 

[micguy]

I was wondering where this convention started, and what the logic behind it is, for the people that have been taught and are teaching this way?

I've been playing for over 45 years, I've probably changed over a hundred sets of strings, and never has the numbering convention mattered to me. i often buy individual strings (custom gauges), and they don' t have position numbers - just the gauges on them. Either way, you put the skinniest string in the position where it's closest to the floor, the slightly bigger one next to it, and so on. I think I've seen string sets where the numbering went the other way, but I'm not sure, and it wouldn't phase me one bit if I got a set numbered that way.

 

[Jogobass]

I think it should matter, which is why I ask about it. What do we teach our students if there is no standard? And if there is a standard, why is it like that? I should have made a poll about this, to gauge the actual spread of either way of numbering.

 

[OldShark]

I agree with your feel that the lowest string should be number one. But generally I name strings by their note, and happily the notes are usually unique on bass in contrast to guitar ("E 1st or 6th?").
Another numbering that always puzzles me is the pickup choices on strats: Why is the closest position to the player (neck PU only) number 5, not 1?

I don't have any explanation.

 

[SteveCS]

As a convention it is probably as old as stringed instruments themselves. I was always taught that way, but no-one ever offered a satisfactory explanation. The original reasons are perhaps lost in the mists of time, but it doesn't really matter - it is well established, and I think any poll would reflect that.

 

[OldShark]

One wild guess: When numbering vocals or instruments within the same range, say in choirs or orchestras, the voices resp. instruments are numbered from highest to lowest. E.g. I had played "french horn 1" in my youth...

 

[brianrost]

If you consider the posture of playing a guitar, the neck is usually tilted with the headstock higher than the body. So moving to the higher numbered frets is indeed downward.

On a double bass, it's definitely downward

String numbering always seemed backwards to me, too. It's used for orchestral string instruments, that's likely where it started.

Don't get me started on front and back pickups, just stick to calling them neck and bridge pickups, please

 

[Jogobass]

good points are being made. thanks for considering the question all!

 

[Jogobass]

Chat GPT chiming in: The modern guitar evolved from instruments such as the lute and the vihuela, which had multiple courses of strings. In these instruments, the courses were typically referred to by their pitch, with the highest-pitched course being called the "first course" or "top course." This naming convention carried over to the modern guitar, even though it has only a single string for each pitch.

 

[dune]

Chat GPT chiming in: The modern guitar evolved from instruments such as the lute and the vihuela, which had multiple courses of strings. In these instruments, the courses were typically referred to by their pitch, with the highest-pitched course being called the "first course" or "top course." This naming convention carried over to the modern guitar, even though it has only a single string for each pitch.

Thanks for this. I never understood it, and now it makes some sense in the carryover from multiple courses. I've never found a need or benefit to referring to the strings by number rather than note name. As far as up/down the neck, while I can understand why some might prefer to reference it by physical position, given that it's a musical instrument I have always thought of it strictly in terms of pitch.

 

[sikamikanico]

Yeah, I think “down the neck” is best understood from the upright perspective.

String numbering seems to be a guessing game. ChatGPT does make up stuff, but that answer is plausible, tho not fully explained. I found a similar thread online, which may be where ChatGPT got it from.

I’ll throw in another guess - guitars (and lutes, violins, etc) are played by wrapping your fretting hand around the neck. So the first string you reach is the thinnest string.

 

[g-dude]

On a double bass, it's definitely downward

Hey! You do you, I’ll do me. Okay?

 

[Turnaround]

As you play your bass, when you cross to a lower string (one closer to the floor) the pitch goes up. And as you move your hand up toward the nut the notes go down. Similarly, while tuning if you turn the key righty (to tighty) the string loosens, unless you have reverse tuners which work right. What you are left with is a left which is right, an up that is down and a drummer that can't keep time.

 

[themickster]

I've seen YouTube tutorials calling the bottom string 'top'. I try telling them that it's the bottom string in pitch, but they say 'I call it top because that's what beginners think it is.' What would they say is the bottom string of an upright bass?

 

[TyBo]

My experience has always been that "up the neck" means musically up, and "higher string" means musically higher. To me it seems a more useful convention - getting into physically higher or lower seems to open the door to confusuon. "Move up the neck to your low E ... then move down the neck to a high E" just feels very counterintuitive to me. But then, it's just what I've learned from the start.

 

[BassFishingInAmerica]

I've been playing bass for about 30 years, initially self taught, but later had some lessons. Now what always confuses me is the convention to number the strings from high to low. Meaning that the G string is number one and E string is 4th string. This happens in the guitar world too, with the high E being called the first string. I've looked it up in english and in my native language, Dutch. And it's being taught the same regardless of language. For me, the lowest string has logically been the first string, and the highest string is the 4th (or 5th, or 6th) string.

Also, I've come across people who call playing up the neck (higher notes) playing down the neck. This is apparent in some instructions by teachers. Leading to confusing statements like: play down the neck toward the 12th fret and the notes will become higher.

I was wondering where this convention started, and what the logic behind it is, for the people that have been taught and are teaching this way?

I originally learned musical notes on a keyboard, where the notes from low to high are from left to right, just like our reading in western countries. For some reason I find it logical to see the bass (or guitar) that way. Left to right is low to high. And the low string is the first string, also because counting the notes goes from low to high in most instructional material. (for left handed players left and right reverse, but low to high is still the same)

I agree with you that the rules for naming can be all over the place. I think this has caused many people to create their own set of rules. I always refer to strings as top string / bottom string, or more simply E string, A string, etc. ... and I will always refer to playing higher notes as playing UP the neck.

 

[Slade N]

My experience has always been that "up the neck" means musically up, and "higher string" means musically higher. To me it seems a more useful convention - getting into physically higher or lower seems to open the door to confusuon. "Move up the neck to your low E ... then move down the neck to a high E" just feels very counterintuitive to me. But then, it's just what I've learned from the start.

I agree with this, it makes the most sense, especially for us non upright players where there is a possibility to play with the neck parallel to the floor where there would be no physical up or down so up = higher pitch and down = lower pitch

 

[Killing Floor]

Haha you can now add this to the very long list of things we do in musical notation and instructions that chase so many beginners away from traditional lessons. Yes. The top/closest string absolutely should be called “1st”. But then again, chicken footprints on railroad tracks don’t make a lot of sense either.

Just learn it correctly because if you want to communicate with musicians who can’t read your mind you have to be able to read and communicate in a common method. As flawed as it may be.

 

[Tommy Sparks]

Seems backwards to me as well and always has.
But I guess I’m used to it at this point. Going up the neck (towards the body) makes some sense to me, but not a lot.
Never really thought too deeply on the subject, just thought it was just me. Now I see there are others out there.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Lower pitch, lower number makes the most sense to me. E=1, A=2 and so on. If you're playing a B string, call it 0. If you have a low F#, that's so far out of the norm that you can call it "George" and have no one to argue against it. Anyways, I don't think I've ever run across a situation where I needed to call strings by number. Just use the open note name.