String numbering convention

[Plain Old Barry]

Way back when I learned from a live teacher and various bass method books in the late 70's, low E was the first string. However, messing around with guitar lessons a few years ago, the guitar books I used usually called the high E the first string.

Thinking about it more, it makes no difference to me as I know my fingerboards and reference everything by note, not string and fret position.

 

[Watchootognbout]

I don't refer to the strings by number.
I refer by the tuning.
BEADGC

 

[Rolling Thunder]

I agree 100% as someone who counted the string closest to me as #1.

My other pet peeve is "rotate to the right". Most people mean at 12:00 and other people (sometimes a cultural thing like German notorious using the thumb as the first digit) use 6:00.

 

[Carl Hillman]

I've been playing bass for about 30 years, initially self taught, but later had some lessons. Now what always confuses me is the convention to number the strings from high to low. Meaning that the G string is number one and E string is 4th string. This happens in the guitar world too, with the high E being called the first string. I've looked it up in english and in my native language, Dutch. And it's being taught the same regardless of language. For me, the lowest string has logically been the first string, and the highest string is the 4th (or 5th, or 6th) string.

Also, I've come across people who call playing up the neck (higher notes) playing down the neck. This is apparent in some instructions by teachers. Leading to confusing statements like: play down the neck toward the 12th fret and the notes will become higher.

I was wondering where this convention started, and what the logic behind it is, for the people that have been taught and are teaching this way?

I originally learned musical notes on a keyboard, where the notes from low to high are from left to right, just like our reading in western countries. For some reason I find it logical to see the bass (or guitar) that way. Left to right is low to high. And the low string is the first string, also because counting the notes goes from low to high in most instructional material. (for left handed players left and right reverse, but low to high is still the same)

A theory: Calling the highest string the first string comes from violin pedagogy. Violinists call their E string #1 because it has the most notes not found anywhere else on the instrument, and soloists spend most of their time on it. Also, when someone puts the bow to the violin with the right arm in its most relaxed position, it naturally falls on the highest string.

 

[HaphAsSard]

In terms of arrangement, the main melody is often assigned to the highest part because it is the most audible together with the other outermost part (bass).
Since lute and other plucked string instruments were mainly polyphonic (in the "texture" sense, i.e. contrapunctal) rather than chordal (in learned music context at least), the treblemost course ended up being the "song" carrier most of the time, and said course (or string, if single-coursed) is called "cantino" (diminutive of "canto" = "song"/"singing") in my language to this day.
Therefore, it only made sense to consider it the "first" string.

The treble side of the range of an instrument was also less susceptible to being extended, as was the case for guitar when the low E was added in the last third of the 18th century.
[There sure are counterexamples, as with the five-course mandocello/octave mandolin hybrid, called the "liuto moderno or "liuto cantabile" ("singable lute").]
It is, in other word, less likely to occur that a new, and higher-than-the-first, string pops up at a certain point.

 

[JRA]

fat one, skinny one --- always worked for me! although the two middle ones can be confusing....

I think it should matter, which is why I ask about it. What do we teach our students if there is no standard? And if there is a standard, why is it like that? I should have made a poll about this, to gauge the actual spread of either way of numbering.

i'm with @gebass6 = i've always referred to them by their tuning (EADG in my case)....all the other ways to reference were too goofy for me.

 

[LBS-bass]

I don't generally find a use for string numbers or neck direction. The strings are BEADGC going from fat to skinny, and the neck has frets (usually) 1 through 20 something. There's no need to say "up or down" to a higher C, for example. Just say "play the C one or two octaves up." We all know that an octave (or any interval) up isn't lower in pitch. This implies, of course, that I'm being given freedom to play that C where it makes the most sense for my playing style / the music. If I'm not, then you can tell me "play the octave C on the G string" or "at X fret" if the instrument is fretted. For unfretted instrument, play it at X position.

I can't recall as a practical matter ever having to use string numbers except when I was very young and being taught how to install strings on my violin, because the numbers were on the packet. Nowadays with bass and guitar strings they are usually gauges. I think in the end it's one of the many things we're taught due to old-school convention - I agree with Carl Hillman's theory - and subsequently we don't need to really worry about, but as someone said upstream, it's good to know about it.

 

[Jogobass]

Thanks for the insights, people. Personally I don't use the numbering either. But I was wondering what would be best practice in case of teaching a beginner. The 'standard' bass being a 4 string. E being the first string. I think of my own B string as -1 if that makes sense, because it is an addition below the E of a standard bass. I don't think extended range basses are common enough, yet, to deviate from that standard of 4 strings.

 

[Slevage]

I learned from a DB player in 1971. We used Carol Kayes's books. The highest string (G) was considered the 1st string and was the first one addressed. This is likely due to the fact that it's easier to reach for a new player (using proper hand and thumb positioning). FYI my teacher played five string basses at the time, all with high C strings. He had 5 string double basses and an early Fender V. So for him the first string was C.

I believe most method books for strings (violin, viola, cello) address the highest string as the 1st string. There is a difference between learning bass guitar from a bassist vs. guitarist.

Flash forward to 2023, having gone through many different string numbers on my basses (4,5,6), I have settled on only 5er's with a high C. This is not for range, but mostly for getting to high notes with minimal shifting.
It is fun to play with the upper tensions of chords. When I did use a 6 string, I was playing "newer" tunes that sounded good with low D's and Eb's. I also played distorted "guitar" solos and slide on the upper strings.

Now I play mostly charted material that requires reading.

 

[JimmyM]

I couldn’t care less, to be honest. Either you like it or you don’t, but it’s not going to change by now.

 

[brianrost]

What would they say is the bottom string of an upright bass?

There is no bottom string on a double bass, just far left, left, right and far right

 

[zontar]

If the lowest string was the first string I think it would lead to more confusion--it would seem to overlap more to me.

But whether or not it is "Correct" in anybody's eyes, I think that's what we have from other stringed instruments--and it's useless to fight it
Just like a tree bar on a guitar--it's actually a vibrate--but to try & change that would result in much head, meet wall.
(Although the Fender Mustang (guitar) has Fender Dynamic Vibrato stamped on ate metal plate below the tailpiece--so they go it right on one guitar)

 

[Ekulati]

Chat GPT chiming in: The modern guitar evolved from instruments such as the lute and the vihuela, which had multiple courses of strings. In these instruments, the courses were typically referred to by their pitch, with the highest-pitched course being called the "first course" or "top course." This naming convention carried over to the modern guitar, even though it has only a single string for each pitch.

Thank god for chat gpt. Now I don't have to type that all out for the umpteenth time here on the ol Interwebs.

History, people. History is important to study. Not just in music.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

In stringed instruments, my index finger is my 1st finger.
My best friend the pianist was classically trained to call his thumb his 1st finger.
When I played in a horn band, they secretly call Bb "c" or somesuch madness but they are all savants at transposition so I gave up and let it go.
Music is farked, mate. There's no two ways about it.

 

[HHudson]

I don't refer to the strings by number.
I refer by the tuning.
BEADGC

Though also not fool proof, being the fool I am, I well remember after arriving here, meeting up for a jam with new friends & and being told the song is in H.
I don't think I could have looked more confused.
Here H=B & B=Bb, the latter still gets me confused sometimes, cuasing me to have to ask "Who's B, yours or mine?"... some compensate kowing where I'm from, some don't.

 

[nnnnnn]

The vast majority of modern bass players play either four-string basses tuned EADG or five-string basses tuned BEADG, so for those players having the highest pitched string as number 1 means the G string is consistently number 1 for both four- and five-string basses. I realise this is not why the strings came to be numbered that way, but it is convenient for the majority.

Having said that, I normally refer to the strings by their note names, not by number.

But I was wondering what would be best practice in case of teaching a beginner.

Teach the standard (highest pitched string is "1", higher pitched notes on a given string are further "up" the neck) whether you agree with it or not. But mention that not everybody follows the standard, so that your student will know what to expect in the field.

The 'standard' bass being a 4 string. E being the first string. I think of my own B string as -1 if that makes sense

But if you're counting down, the next number after 1 is 0.

 

[nnnnnn]

I've seen YouTube tutorials calling the bottom string 'top'. I try telling them that it's the bottom string in pitch, but they say 'I call it top because that's what beginners think it is.'

So annoying.
I bet in some cases that justification about what beginners think is something they've come up with after the fact to avoid admitting they didn't know the standard terms themselves.

 

[Wasnex]

I think it should matter, which is why I ask about it. What do we teach our students if there is no standard? And if there is a standard, why is it like that? I should have made a poll about this, to gauge the actual spread of either way of numbering.

IMHO the issues you are concerned about should only relate to communication. If the meaning is ambiguous you have a short conversation to clarify. This is not something I would get too upset about or lose sleep over.

While playing bass, it's likely I would think of the lowest-pitched string as the first string...doesn't necessarily mean I am right or even in the majority.

I would not say, "Play on the 1st string," or "Play on the second string." For my #1 bass guitar, which is a 6-string, I would say "Play on the B string," or "Play on the E string." There is simply no need or benefit (IMHO) of using numbers to designate the strings.

The logic might change in different situations. For example, maybe I would feel different if I used TAB, which I don't. Or maybe I would feel different if I played guitar where both the highest and lowest string is an E. AFAIK string sets typically either number the highest string as #1, or they only identify the string by intended pitch. So if I were a luthier, I might think of the highest string as the 1st.

I think most bassist agree that playing up the neck means going higher. The logic relates to pitch. Of course if you play upright bass this may seem confusing, because playing physically higher on the neck results in playing lower. My point is some people could possibly think the other way, and have a valid reason. However, I played viola and double bass and thought of playing up the neck as going higher in pitch.

For the record I just Googled, "1st string bass" and "1st string guitar." The number one result for these instruments disagree on which is the first string. Bass is EADG and guitar is EBGDAE.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I've been playing bass for about 30 years, initially self taught, but later had some lessons. Now what always confuses me is the convention to number the strings from high to low. Meaning that the G string is number one and E string is 4th string. This happens in the guitar world too, with the high E being called the first string. I've looked it up in english and in my native language, Dutch. And it's being taught the same regardless of language. For me, the lowest string has logically been the first string, and the highest string is the 4th (or 5th, or 6th) string.

Also, I've come across people who call playing up the neck (higher notes) playing down the neck. This is apparent in some instructions by teachers. Leading to confusing statements like: play down the neck toward the 12th fret and the notes will become higher.

I was wondering where this convention started, and what the logic behind it is, for the people that have been taught and are teaching this way?

I originally learned musical notes on a keyboard, where the notes from low to high are from left to right, just like our reading in western countries. For some reason I find it logical to see the bass (or guitar) that way. Left to right is low to high. And the low string is the first string, also because counting the notes goes from low to high in most instructional material. (for left handed players left and right reverse, but low to high is still the same)

I equate location in relation to pitch. The higher the pitch is always up. Why not location? JMO

 

[Slevage]

In stringed instruments, my index finger is my 1st finger.
My best friend the pianist was classically trained to call his thumb his 1st finger.
When I played in a horn band, they secretly call Bb "c" or somesuch madness but they are all savants at transposition so I gave up and let it go.
Music is farked, mate. There's no two ways about it.

That’s because music written in
Bb (concert key) is C for trumpet and other Bb instruments such as tenor saxophone