• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Stringing, Tuning, Intonation and Witnesses

Turnaround

Turnaround

Commercial User
May 6, 2004
11,522
24,794
Toronto Canada
Disclosures
Independent Instrument Technician - Retired
#1
Looks like we need to start a thread with respect to restringing. There are so many myths and bits of misinformation out there, including this wonderful guide (need I warn you that this is a good idea?) about stretching your strings:



There are a number of things that one needs to be mindful of when restringing a bass. Hopefully we will cover the following items ( in no particular order):

1. String length vs tension
2. String mass vis a vis tension
3. String gauge in light of the previous two items
4. Nut concerns in light of #3
5. Tuning methods
6. Harmonics and tuning accuracy
7. Intonation
8. Installation - best practices
9. Stretching your new strings - check the youtube video above for the worst advice you are likely to find.
10. Tuning machines and tuning stability issues
11. Witness points - huh?
12. The affect of the truss rod on tuning accuracy
14. Nut geometry and compensation.

And anything else that seems relevant. While you wait for info in this thread, you might try tuning by ear. There are advantages to doing it this way. Stay tuned (pun intended).
 
  • Like
Reactions: J_Bass, edr, imabuddha and 12 others
#6
Haji said:
He's too earnest to not be serious.
Click to expand...
It's scary when you see this stuff on the inter web. Some people may take it as gospel truth. And I ask myself how gullible are we? But the web is still relatively new and we haven't sorted all this out yet. Wiki has offered the democratization of knowledge at the expense of accuracy. And though the efforts are there to "vet" the content, it's a flawed concept. Once you insist on quoted authority and backup data, you enter the realm of controlled knowledge to which Wiki was supposed to be THE alternative.

We need to figure out how we preserve true knowledge that should be shared and shed unsubstantiated opinion and gossip. And it's not easy. One of my favourite quotes, and I am sorry I do not remember the source, is "The problem about keeping an open mind is that someone will dump their garbage in it".

But I offer my best advice from half a century of hands-on experience - Don't stretch your strings as suggested in this video. Do I have to create a video to be taken seriously about this advice?
 
  • Like
Reactions: imabuddha, jamro217 and kittyboy
#9
If this video rustled your jimmies, you really haven't been on the internet long enough.

1. Expert village is a well-known repository of hilariously bad advice, most of it intentionally so, though all of it made convincingly enough to make you wonder if it's intentional.

2. In the grand scheme of things this advice is not that bad - it certainly WILL stretch your strings, and if your bass is well made it shouldn't sustain any damage from the abuse.

3. Wikipedia's point has never been to circumvent traditional means of consensus, it's point is universal access. It preserves its own edit history so you can watch how "truth" evolves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jamro217 and Haji
#10
That should read "Village Idiot" rather than Expert Village.

New strings, particularly if you're about to do a gig, should be stretched...... but not like that. I've only been playing bass for a bit over 18 months after 30+ years of guitar and so far with around 6 or so bass string changes there was only minimal stretching required. Guitar strings on the other hand I stretch quite a bit before use but in a very different manner to that video.
 
  • Like
Reactions: J_Bass, imabuddha and jamro217
#11
callofcthulhu said:
In the grand scheme of things this advice is not that bad - it certainly WILL stretch your strings, and if your bass is well made it shouldn't sustain any damage from the abuse.
Click to expand...

Yes it is bad advice! It may not damage the bass, but it does harm the strings. Stay tuned to the thread to find out why.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jamro217 and megafiddle
#12
callofcthulhu said:
Wikipedia's point has never been to circumvent traditional means of consensus, it's point is universal access. It preserves its own edit history so you can watch how "truth" evolves.
Click to expand...

The problem is that truth does not evolve. Perception of truth does. And there is questionable value in universal access to stupid opinions and untruths.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rockinrayduke, BassJuju, imabuddha and 5 others
#14
callofcthulhu said:
And that's exactly why I put "truth" in quotes.
Click to expand...

Yah - I get it. Not really calling you out on that, just rambling and ranting.

callofcthulhu said:
Unfortunately, whether or not we can ever know the Truth is an epistemologically unbounded question, so good luck with that one.
Click to expand...
And equally good luck with sorting out the stuff on the web.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jamro217
#15
"Seating" is likely a better term for what "stretching" is supposed to accomplish.

I find I need to do very little other than set the witness points at the ends. I hold the wrap on the tuning post very tight while winding it up, also. Might be a tiny bit of retuning initially, but not much.

A string will return to it's original length (and tension) as long as it is not stretched beyond it's elastic limit. Any mild stretching that's done within this limit should have no effect on the string. So while it doesn't hurt anything (any more than bending a note does), it doesn't do anything either, aside from seating it better.

Stretching a string will only make a difference in the string if you exceed it's elastic limit, and at that point you will have likely damaged it.

-
 
  • Like
Reactions: vid1900, jamro217, JustForSport and 1 other person
#17
There are some out there on YT trying at least to debunk all myths on guitar though. WallisGuitar and Scott Grove. Regardless of their demeanor and attitude. This video, I can't even think that it's NOT a put on, or elaborate prank.

I think it's funny that people doesn't make the slightest effort in searching for info FIRST to claim their arguments or not. If they don't do that and wont back down it's time for a thorough read of philosopher scientist Karl Popper. I e you should spend 90 percent of your time to find anything that falsifies your arguments and findings.

BTW, this video is the most blatante exposure and clear demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect, explained elsewhere before. Although, this is not about actual playing but maintenance and setup.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jamro217
#18
Honch said:
There are some out there on YT trying at least to debunk all myths on guitar though. WallisGuitar and Scott Grove. Regardless of their demeanor and attitude. This video, I can't even think that it's NOT a put on, or elaborate prank.

I think it's funny that people doesn't make the slightest effort in searching for info FIRST to claim their arguments or not. If they don't do that and wont back down it's time for a thorough read of philosopher scientist Karl Popper. I e you should spend 90 percent of your time to find anything that falsifies your arguments and findings.

BTW, this video is the most blatante exposure and clear demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect, explained elsewhere before. Although, this is not about actual playing but maintenance and setup.
Click to expand...
The Dunning-Kruger effect may show itself everywhere. Not only in the field of playing bass, but in the field of anything that any person can have an opinion about.

Personally, I don't trust people who wear their underpants on their heads, no matter what.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jamro217, Microbass, FronTowardEnemy and 1 other person
#20
Back when I worked in a music shop I used to insert the string through the peg's slot, then bend the end backwards (opposite of how the string will wind) and then wind the string over the end. This was thought to keep the string from slipping but I do not see anyone doing this anymore. Now everyone inserts the end into the hole in the middle of the slot and wind as normal. Thought?

Also, I think the quality of the string, tuners and nut makes a huge difference. On my EUB I recently installed some Piastro Obligatos (synthetic core with thin metal wrap, OK I know I'm on the wrong side her). I also installed some new Hipshot tuners. So Saturday I get to a gig, set up my bass, checked the tuning and had to make no adjustments. Played for two hours, checking my tuning occasionally and never had to adjust it. Of course, the downside of the guts is that it takes awhile (like three days or more) to slowly (not like the video stretch the so I could get them in tune the first time.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back