Double Bass Strings for '51 American Standard Upright?

[lnichols]

I'm looking for new strings for 1951 American Standard upright bass. It's a big bass. I'd call it maybe a large 3/4 or small 7/8 sized bass. String length between nut and bridge is 43.25". It had Velvet Blue strings installed when I bought it about a year ago and they are still on it. I use it mostly for bluegrass. The fingerboard and tailpiece have been replaced with good ebony. After playing a set or two, I find that my hands hurt. I have Eurosonic Orchestra strings on my carved 3/4 Bulgarian bass and my hands don't feel that way if I play them for pizzacato. However, I'm looking for more of a 'standard' bluegrass sound that doesn't hurt so much. I suspect that's a softer string than the Velvet Blues. I like the 'ping' sound at the start of a string and I've heard the Evah Pirazzi strings have that. I think the bluegrass sound is a shorter sustain, something like gut. However, I don't want to deal with the maintenance and constant tuning of gut strings. I pull the stings pretty hard, but I don't slap, although I should probably learn. I've learned to mute the strings with both hands, so maybe a quick decay isn't as important as the softness and overall sound.

How do the Pirastro Evah Pirazzi strings feel compared to Velvet Blue strings? I find the Velvet Blues to be much more difficult to bow than the Eurosonic Orchestras or D'Addario Obligatos that I've used before. Ability to easily bow isn't a requirement, but if the strings bow well, that would be a plus. To be complete, I don't have extremely large hands. On the Am Standard, I have to shift to reach between F-G on E string (Bb-C on A string ; Eb-F on D string ; Ab-Bb on G string). I don't have to do that on my standard 3/4 sized bass. I like the overall sound and volume of the Am Standard bass, so I don't really want to trade it.

I've spent a lot of time reading old posts on string choices. It gets confusing. Seems that every string that someone loves is disliked by someone else for similar applications. I know that the same strings will sound different depending on the bass and the setup. BTW, I do have a good luthier that I trust for setups. But they recommended keeping the Velvet Blues on. The strings I've seen comments on that might fit what I'm looking for are:
Pirastro Evah Pirazzi
D'Addario Zyex
Innovation Super Silver
Pirastro Obligato

Even with sting brand, then there's the question of Medium, Light, Ultra Light, and Solo tuned down. Anyone have some advice?

 

[Jake deVilliers]

All of the strings in your list of prospective strings are higher tension than the Velvet Blues except for the Super Silvers which are pretty similar.

Innovation Silver Slaps are lower tension than the Super Silvers and would fit the long American Standard string length better. Velvet Garbo Lights might work, too.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

I know you don't want to deal with gut string problems, but in my humble opinion you should reconsider. Until recently I had a '39 King strung with a full set of Pirastro Chordas. It was a monster.

Generally, plain gut is fairly stable in my experience. Gut D&G over Innovations, Velvets or Spiro Weichs may also work. I tend to enjoy light gauge strings on older, lightly built plywood basses.

 

[Phil Rowan]

+1 for guts. I have Gamut heavy round wound A and medium Gamut Lyon D and G on my '38 Kay (with a dark steel E) and it roars while being plenty easy on my hands (though they do have more tension than you'd think, at least for guts.. but that's how I like it). Also, these higher end guts are surprisingly stable. They sometimes go out of tune a little when the bass is left alone (and depending on the climate), but I find that throughout a set/gig they stay in tune quite well.

 

[marcox]

FWIW, I have a '36 American Standard (with Obligatos) as a secondary bass and experience discomfort in my left hand while playing it. I attribute it to the very thin neck of the AS, which I find less comfortable than the beefier neck of my main bass, a German laminate, even though the latter is strung with higher-tension Spirocore Mittels.

A long way of saying that it might be more than just your string choice causing the problem.

 

[MytBrednec]

Inichols,
I also own a '51 American Standard (serial #2137 to be exact) it is currently strung with Super Silvers and sounds incredible with them. Although I am extremely new to bass playing, I took the bass to a festival I attend annually and it was played by several pretty decent bassists. They all loved the sound and feel of the Super Silvers.

 

[lnichols]

FWIW, I have a '36 American Standard (with Obligatos) as a secondary bass and experience discomfort in my left hand while playing it. I attribute it to the very thin neck of the AS, which I find less comfortable than the beefier neck of my main bass, a German laminate, even though the latter is strung with higher-tension Spirocore Mittels.

A long way of saying that it might be more than just your string choice causing the problem.

I've been wondering if the thin neck might have something to do with it. My Bulgarian bass has a much beefier next and I don't have discomfort after playing it. I've considered putting the Eurosonic orchestra strings on it, just for a test of how my hands feel after playing it for 2 or 3 hours.

Thanks, Leni

 

[lnichols]

Inichols,
I also own a '51 American Standard (serial #2137 to be exact) it is currently strung with Super Silvers and sounds incredible with them. Although I am extremely new to bass playing, I took the bass to a festival I attend annually and it was played by several pretty decent bassists. They all loved the sound and feel of the Super Silvers.

Wow, our serial #s are pretty close. Mine is #2112. I've never played Super Silvers before. I might have to try them.

Thanks, Leni

 

[lnichols]

I know you don't want to deal with gut string problems, but in my humble opinion you should reconsider. Until recently I had a '39 King strung with a full set of Pirastro Chordas. It was a monster.

Generally, plain gut is fairly stable in my experience. Gut D&G over Innovations, Velvets or Spiro Weichs may also work. I tend to enjoy light gauge strings on older, lightly built plywood basses.

I've only heard about gut string problems. I've never had them on one of my basses, or really even played on them. I may have to check them out a little closer.

When you say "Gut D&G over Innovations..." you mean Innovations, Velvets, or Spiro for the E&A strings, yes?

Thanks, Leni

 

[lnichols]

+1 for guts. I have Gamut heavy round wound A and medium Gamut Lyon D and G on my '38 Kay (with a dark steel E) and it roars while being plenty easy on my hands (though they do have more tension than you'd think, at least for guts.. but that's how I like it). Also, these higher end guts are surprisingly stable. They sometimes go out of tune a little when the bass is left alone (and depending on the climate), but I find that throughout a set/gig they stay in tune quite well.

Thanks. I may have to check those out a little closer. I'm not so concerned with it going out of tune a little when the bass is left alone. I'm concerned about it going out of tune during a set. I've seen that happen to someone before, but I have no idea what kind of gut strings he was using - possibly very cheap or very old.

Thanks again, Leni

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Yes, you took my meaning correctly. Steel strings, Spiros especially, generally stay in tune and are a good benchmark to check the tuning of gut D&G strings against on the fly.

There are a few things to discuss before we move on. Plain gut and wound gut are very different animals. Plain gut are fairly temperature- and humidity-stable, but can feel sticky to the touch in high temperature and humidity. They also tend to fray, unless specially coated, so you will have to trim or burn the "hairs" off before the string has a chance to unravel on you. If you're not playing them every day, and getting the oils of your skin into plain guts, you may have to oil them. I know guys who use Sno-Seal on their plain gut, with good results. If the strings are translucent and smooth to the touch, all is well.

Wound gut go flat in high humidity and sharp in low humidity. When the air is dry I detune mine to avoid breakage if I'm not playing on them several times a day. They do not need as much maintenance as plain gut, but the windings can break, causing buzzing. Dan Larson from Gamut Strings offers a rewinding service for $50.

I have a spare set of LaBella guts I could lend you, but the wound strings are in sorry shape, and the set isn't that great overall.

As far as playing comfort is concerned, how much relief/scoop is cut into the fingerboard of your AS compared to your Bulgarian?

 

[wallawallabob]

My $.02..... I find that a thicker neck is easier on my fingers than a thin one, but I have relatively long fingers. Also, even though I know I could get more volume with a higher action, I have intentionally lowered it to more of a jazz setup. I have to take care not to rip on it hard enough to buzz, but I can play for hours.

In fact, yesterday I played off and on for 2 church services (approximately 1.5 hours of playing time in total), then jammed from 3 in the afternoon until 5:30 - sure my fingers were tired, but I could (and would!) play just as long today....

 

[Phil Rowan]

Thank you, KUNGfu, for clearing that up. And I would say +100 for a thicker neck. I had the thin Engelhart replacement neck on my Kay thickened by way of a new ebony fingerboard and it makes a huge difference. Before I'd easily get nasty cramps on my left hand, particularly the thumb part of the palm (if that makes any sense.. the lower left side of the left hand), but now I have none of those problems. Even so, I'm thinking of adding a shim to make it even beefier.

 

[dukeorock]

I like the Super Silvers a lot for the E and A...I slap, so it's gotta be a raw gut D & G for me

 

[Steve Swan]

Other than the obvious gut string sets and light tension Innovation sets, I've had great success with the Kolstein Jazz Heritage strings on these long string length King Moretone and American Standard basses. They have a warm gut-like tone and stay in tune once you get them there after 3-5 days with the initial installation.

 

[lnichols]

Other than the obvious gut string sets and light tension Innovation sets, I've had great success with the Kolstein Jazz Heritage strings on these long string length King Moretone and American Standard basses. They have a warm gut-like tone and stay in tune once you get them there after 3-5 days with the initial installation.

Thanks, Steve. I've never even heard of the Kolsteins. I'll have to take a look.

Leni

 

[neddyrow]

I agree with most of what had been said here. I had super silvers and really liked them but I took advantage of a full set of plain guts for sale here on TB and I haven't looked back. I love the sound so much better! Guts just have a more natural sound on my '85 Eberle. They are just Gotz guts, nothing special, and the maintenance is pretty low. They stay in tune pretty well too (and friendly on the hands). I slap pretty hard and I may have to tune a little between sets but they stay in pretty well in most conditions - and I was busking this summer! I recommend you do what I did and grab the next set of slightly used guts on the for sale list and give them a shot.