I'm kind of leaning toward re-drilling the neck holes. Just don't want to screw this up. Any advice on this?
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Strings not centered on neck -- with photos
- Thread starter SeismicAssault
- Start date
I'm kind of leaning toward re-drilling the neck holes. Just don't want to screw this up. Any advice on this?
Then I wouldn't worry about it. As long as that bad boy intonates properly and the strings don't roll off the edge of the fingerboard whilst playing, you should be good to go. OTOH, all 10 of my fivers (Lakland, Bossa, Roscoe, Pedulla, Zon, Hanewinckel, CB, MTD, Cirrus, Modulus) are centered so maybe Jimmy Coppolo knows something we don't.
Riis
I've seen several bodies over the years with undersized holes for the neck mounting screws. This can be caused by paint build up in the holes. If the mounting screws do not move freely through the holes in the body, they need to be enlarged. I make sure the holes in the body are 1/32" larger than the screws. Also, the holes in the neck and body may not be the "exact" same pattern and need some slop to set the margin.
For setting the string margin....
I use a piece of sticky back 150 grit sandpaper stuck to the neck. I make it only slightly smaller than the footprint of the body on the neck. The screws will thread right through it. The sandpaper will keep the neck from moving once the screws are tightened. Using the sandpaper will mean the action will need to be raised a taste to get it back where it was.
Have the screws loose enough where the neck takes just a little effort to move.
Tighten the strings until they are straight but not tuned up to pitch. This keeps you from having to fight the tension of the strings.
Set the margin by gently moving the neck and then tighten the screws.
Care has to be taken to not crack the thin wood on either side where the neck exits the body and there is a possibility the PG will have to be trimmed at the neck pocket to fit.
Edit: I wouldn't dowel unless it was absolutely necessary.
mech
For setting the string margin....
I use a piece of sticky back 150 grit sandpaper stuck to the neck. I make it only slightly smaller than the footprint of the body on the neck. The screws will thread right through it. The sandpaper will keep the neck from moving once the screws are tightened. Using the sandpaper will mean the action will need to be raised a taste to get it back where it was.
Have the screws loose enough where the neck takes just a little effort to move.
Tighten the strings until they are straight but not tuned up to pitch. This keeps you from having to fight the tension of the strings.
Set the margin by gently moving the neck and then tighten the screws.
Care has to be taken to not crack the thin wood on either side where the neck exits the body and there is a possibility the PG will have to be trimmed at the neck pocket to fit.
Edit: I wouldn't dowel unless it was absolutely necessary.
mech
Easy. Get some 1/4" hardwood dowel from a hobby store, or possibly from your home center. Buy a 1/4" drill bit. Also get letter C and D bits- they are a little smaller than 1/4" and may be better depending on exactly how big your dowels are. And finally a 9/64" bit for redrilling the screw holes once the repair is made. Grab a bottle of TiteBond glue.
VERY CAREFULLY redrill the holes with the C bit. The bit may want to grab and drive itself right through the fingerboard so you gotta watch what you're doing. Dulling the corners of the drill bit tip with a grinder helps prevent this tendency.
Attempt to insert the dowel into the hole. If it won't go without a major struggle, drill again with the D bit. Still too tight? Go to the 1/4" bit.
Drill the other three holes. Cut dowel pieces to be just slightly longer than the holes are deep.
Apply a little glue to one of the holes, and to a dowel. Insert dowel, tapping lightly if needed. Work fast and glue only one hole at a time, because the glue dries quickly.
Let sit overnight, then sand the remaining dowel flush with the neck surface with a sanding block.
Carefully clamp the neck into the neck pocket, and install the E and G strings, winding them just tightly enough to keep them from flopping around.
Adjust neck position until desired string alignment is achieved.
Insert a neck screw into the back of the body and tap it lightly, to make an impression on the neck in the new location. Do all four holes.
Remove the neck and re-drill the holes with the 9/64" drill bit, being super careful like before.
Apply a little soap to the screw threads, hold the neck in the neck pocket and drive the screws home.
I always just re-drill the neck holes. The way I do it is to use a quick grip clamp with padded cauls. After I have filled the old neck holes I clamp the neck into the pocket just tight enough so that it stays but is still loose enough so that I can move the neck from left to right. I then use a strait edge to aline the neck and then tighten down the clamp. The quick grip clamp works good for this for three reasons. One being that it has the padded cauls. Two it’s quick! And three it’s caul fits in between the holes on the body, so once I get it clamped in place I can use the body as a guide for my drill. once that’s all done you should be set. Just make sure if your using a hand drill you hold it as strait as possible and that you mark the proper depth either using a piece of tape around the bit or a stop marker of some kind. If you have a drill press that would probably make your life a little easier but isn’t necessary to get it done. So anyways I hope this helps.
Samantha.
Samantha.
Re-drilling the neck screw-holes is an option, but I just had the same problem with a project I'm working on. The strings lined up just fine with the pickup poles and bridge seemed centered. I tried a shim on the side of the neck pocket and it didn't make much of a difference (and the pocket is so tight I could barely get it in there).
Closer inspection of the nut showed it was definitely slotted to far to the bass side (all 5 slots). If you've got the tools to DIY, great. But I paid a tech $50 to carve a new nut & problem solved!
Closer inspection of the nut showed it was definitely slotted to far to the bass side (all 5 slots). If you've got the tools to DIY, great. But I paid a tech $50 to carve a new nut & problem solved!
Some good solutions to correct the alignment have been mentioned already... but I need to also comment as others have that I actually see basses with this 'misalignment' all of the time. It is more of a problem if the G string is the one biased to the side of the neck, its more likely to be pulled of the fboard. I personally had an old MM stingray that had that issue. If you pay attention you will also see lots of basses with huge misalignment issues with strings not falling correctly in between pickup poles.
These days I personally try to build/setup my basses so that these things do line up properly... but I didn't always care to much about it.
These days I personally try to build/setup my basses so that these things do line up properly... but I didn't always care to much about it.
I grabbed a shot of the nut ... to me it looks like the nut is perfectly centered.
I measured the distance from the edge of the fingerboard to the E and G strings at the 20th fret. The E string is 3/16" from the edge, and the G string is 5/16" from the edge. So I'd need to shift the strings 1/16" at the 20th fret to get them centered.
Yeah, I think I'm leaning toward trying to do this. I hate having to drill into an almost brand-new neck, but I'd like to get this solved. This project was supposed to be my dream build (still is), so I don't want to leave some things "unsolved". If I can get it right, I'll do it.
I guess the question is whether I can do this myself without screwing it up, or whether I should just have a luthier do it. Does anyone know about how much it would cost to have a luthier redrill / remount a neck?
Funny, I've been lurking and posting around luthier's corner for a long time, and I have to say, very few of the responses in this thread come from those whom I know to be luthiers or professional repair techs.
Seismicassault, be wary of what you receive over the internet and keep reading, the anonymity that this medium provides has people commenting all over the place on topics that they do not fully understand or do not have experience with, but they think it looks simple enough, or the advice they offer seems to make sense to them so they post it up.
Pretty much every idea other than redrilling the holes in the neck and then dowelling them and re-drilling is hogwash. I've done this exact repair many, many times, mostly on Fenders (their QC is great, but they really mass produce so the margin of error is represented a bit more frequently, plus we're dealing with multiple factories).
The right way to do it is to drill out the screw holes in the neck, dowel and glue them. Re-measure the alignment of everything on the body and neck in a dry fit, mark the holes on the neck and re-drill them, with a drill press.
Anything else will eventually prove itself to be a waste of your time, because just about every other "fix" that has been offered is temporary and absolutely not what a competent repair-person would tell you...
Seismicassault, be wary of what you receive over the internet and keep reading, the anonymity that this medium provides has people commenting all over the place on topics that they do not fully understand or do not have experience with, but they think it looks simple enough, or the advice they offer seems to make sense to them so they post it up.
Pretty much every idea other than redrilling the holes in the neck and then dowelling them and re-drilling is hogwash. I've done this exact repair many, many times, mostly on Fenders (their QC is great, but they really mass produce so the margin of error is represented a bit more frequently, plus we're dealing with multiple factories).
The right way to do it is to drill out the screw holes in the neck, dowel and glue them. Re-measure the alignment of everything on the body and neck in a dry fit, mark the holes on the neck and re-drill them, with a drill press.
Anything else will eventually prove itself to be a waste of your time, because just about every other "fix" that has been offered is temporary and absolutely not what a competent repair-person would tell you...
Beej,
Another reason I'm fond of laterally adjustable bridge saddles (i.e. Hipshot, Schaller, etc.) which allows for some compensation.
Riis brought this suggestion to light.
I would go for the same solution as he but I am not a luthier. You do have a standard bridge on there SeismecAssault I would upgrade to a Schaller.
Would this be a decent solution if you were not going to go the drill press route?
Another reason I'm fond of laterally adjustable bridge saddles (i.e. Hipshot, Schaller, etc.) which allows for some compensation.
Riis brought this suggestion to light.
I would go for the same solution as he but I am not a luthier. You do have a standard bridge on there SeismecAssault I would upgrade to a Schaller.
Would this be a decent solution if you were not going to go the drill press route?
I grabbed a shot of the nut ... to me it looks like the nut is perfectly centered.
I measured the distance from the edge of the fingerboard to the E and G strings at the 20th fret. The E string is 3/16" from the edge, and the G string is 5/16" from the edge. So I'd need to shift the strings 1/16" at the 20th fret to get them centered.
Right you are. That nut looks a lot better than the one I was dealing with. Listen to the luthiers on this one.
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do
The question is (as was posed earlier), who's offering advice from experience, and who's offering opinions.Anyhow, I appreciate all the input, and I'll keep reading, researching, before I make too hasty a decision.
I was just thinking about swapping out the bridge for one with a lateral adjustment. I even think something like the Leo Quan BAII (which you have to cut your own string grooves) would be acceptable.
I want to make sure I do this right. I'm hoping this bass lasts (and keeps me happy) a long time!
Anything I've suggested has a reference source....Rick Turner is one of my fav's.
The Hipshot is a better choice simply because if you screw things up, all you have to do is loosen a locking hex nut and readjust the stupid thing (with apologies to Jason @ Hipshot). Same goes for the Schaller.
How much play actually exists between the neck heel and pocket with neck-mount screws loosened? I have a handful that won't budge a bit.
Riis
No offense, but Dan Erlewine addresses this exact issue in his Guitar Player Repair Guide, p. 162, and appears to disagree with you... he specifically mentions trying first to just shift and re-tighten, then if that doesn't work, using metal screen-door mesh or drywall sandpaper between the neck and the body to create friction to prevent the parts from shifting after you shift the neck into place. He does discuss drilling, but for stripped mounting holes or for doing custom steel inserts.
This^^^^^^
FWIW...I've set up and fixed guitars for over 40 years. Not as a luthier but as a tech. I highly recommend trying what was suggested in my previous post before getting into dowelling and drilling new holes. That is more likely to end up with a misalignment problem if you don't understand every step of the process and don't have the correct tools to do it.
As long as there is room in the neck pocket for the neck to be adjusted, the problem is most likely with the holes in the body being undersized or the patterns misaligned between the body and the neck. This is keeping the screws from moving far enough for the neck to be/stay aligned.
If the holes in the neck are drilled slightly larger and the neck still won't align, the dowelling option is still open. Try the simple fix first.
It may only be one hole in the body that is causing the problem. Mount the neck on the body with no neck plate and no strings and see if all the screws can be centered in their holes and run straight through. If just one is off center or runs in at an angle, that may be the only one that needs to be "fixed".
mech
FWIW...I've set up and fixed guitars for over 40 years. Not as a luthier but as a tech. I highly recommend trying what was suggested in my previous post before getting into dowelling and drilling new holes. That is more likely to end up with a misalignment problem if you don't understand every step of the process and don't have the correct tools to do it.
As long as there is room in the neck pocket for the neck to be adjusted, the problem is most likely with the holes in the body being undersized or the patterns misaligned between the body and the neck. This is keeping the screws from moving far enough for the neck to be/stay aligned.
If the holes in the neck are drilled slightly larger and the neck still won't align, the dowelling option is still open. Try the simple fix first.
It may only be one hole in the body that is causing the problem. Mount the neck on the body with no neck plate and no strings and see if all the screws can be centered in their holes and run straight through. If just one is off center or runs in at an angle, that may be the only one that needs to be "fixed".
mech
Bingo saved me posting. I would plug and redrill the bad hole/holes only if using screws
I guess this is one thing I could look at. If I remember correctly, the holes in the body are actually fairly tight around the screw (enought that I have to use a screwdriver to get them through the body). It's not super tight, like I have to crank on the screwdriver, but I can't turn the screws through the body with my fingers.
If I were to enlarge the body holes a little, I can see how this would give a little room for the neck to be adjusted. But would just the clamping pressure between the neckplate and the screws into the neck be enough to keep it from shifting over time? I guess this is what the sandpaper or drywall mesh screen would help with.
I believe that some of the screw holes in the neck may not be perfectly aligned with the body holes, and this may be causing the misalignment. There is a little bit of room for the neck to move in the pocket (not an extreme amount), so I should be able to make some adjustments in that area, too.
