Struggling Scorpion Speaker—Help, Please

[agedhorse]

I am really enjoying the Scorpion 15 in my TKO115S; I like what it does when you shove a bunch of bright, clean, just-starting-to-break-up guitar sound into it. (In the TKO’s ported enclosure). I would not think it would be a good-sounding guitar speaker based on looking at Peavey’s published specs, but I love it. It lets me put a taste of drunk, homicidal redneck into my guitar sound, and that is pleasant and rewarding.

I find the TKO to sound pretty good cranked up with bass too, but pretty beamy—I have to stand in the right place to hear the upper bass guitar frequencies. I don’t notice that as much using it for guitar, plus it doesn’t seem as volume-limited at 80 watts for guitar.

Actually, it was a popular guitar speaker as well as being used in some PA applications.

 

[Riff Ranger]

Actually, it was a popular guitar speaker as well as being used in some PA applications.

My early ‘90s Bandit has a Scorpion and it’s not bad for guitar. I am trying to determine whether I prefer that one to an ‘80s Studio Pro with a Black Widow. I am lean toward the latter.

Everything you say about the early ‘90s TKO is true (see a BW-loaded one on the chair off to your right). Other than needing to leave a patch cable in the effects loop, mine works great.

 

[mexicanyella]

My early ‘90s Bandit has a Scorpion and it’s not bad for guitar. I am trying to determine whether I prefer that one to an ‘80s Studio Pro with a Black Widow. I am lean toward the latter.

Everything you say about the early ‘90s TKO is true (see a BW-loaded one on the chair off to your right). Other than needing to leave a patch cable in the effects loop, mine works great.

Hey, MBss, what are the EQ frequencies on your TKO? Seemed lime there were several different versions of that chassis/face panel layout, with different stripe graphics and EQ centers.

Mine has sliders centered at 80, 160, 340, 660, 1.3K, 2.6K and 5K.

I think the corner frequencies for the shelving EQ knobs are 40 Hz and 8 kHz. “Bright” is a 6 dB boost at 2K. I know a few of the sliders and maybe the low shelving differ on some versions...just curious.

 

[Riff Ranger]

Hey, MBss, what are the EQ frequencies on your TKO? Seemed lime there were several different versions of that chassis/face panel layout, with different stripe graphics and EQ centers.

Mine has sliders centered at 80, 160, 340, 660, 1.3K, 2.6K and 5K.

I think the corner frequencies for the shelving EQ knobs are 40 Hz and 8 kHz. “Bright” is a 6 dB boost at 2K. I know a few of the sliders and maybe the low shelving differ on some versions...just curious.

Sounds like they’re identical other than the speakers.

 

[Riff Ranger]

Not sure if anybody’s still tuned in here, but the plot thickens:

Different cab (‘89 1516 with Black Widows), same issue, only worse. The issue quickly resurfaced with the Scorpion, too. The more I troubleshoot, the weirder it gets:

• No problems at all with the 700w 1x15 Black Widow on the bottom, either when used with the crackling cabs (~300 watts at 2 ohms) or by itself (~210 watts at 4 ohms).
• Both the 400w cabs crackle, whether on their own or with the non-problematic cab.
• When powering down after the issue surfaces, a sound somewhere between an excited R2D2 and (for lack of a better term) a squealy fart issues from the troubled speaker(s).
• The 1516 does just fine when I use the same speaker cable in the 4 ohm output jack of my Mesa Buster combo (8 ohm combo speaker unplugged).

 

[Riff Ranger]

So, de-junking the jacks didn’t really solve this after all. The issue didn’t arise in the Scorpion until after several months of regular use; it surfaced almost immediately with the 1516. As the 1516 played just fine with Buster, I would suspect something in the head … but that head and the single Black Widow work together without issues. Clearly this was over my head even when I first brought it up, but I suspect it’s something more like what @agedhorse first mentioned. One other possible piece of the puzzle: I tune low. CGCF, BEAD, even GCGCF (though I don’t ride that low G much). I know that’s asking a lot of old equipment, but there’s a whole genre of doom metal playing older gear lower and louder than I am and their old Sunns and Acoustics seem to do okay.

 

[BassmanPaul]

Try cleaning the speaker connectors and jacks with electrical contact cleaner or alcohol works, too.

Oh No!

 

[littlebun]

Oh No!

Affordable alcohol works well as an audio connector cleaner. Choose a 90-percent or higher solution of high-purity octyl alcohol, which doesn't leave a residue. Don't use rubbing alcohol; it leaves residue behind when it evaporates. Apply the solution with a nonabrasive cloth and gently polish the connector. Ha Ha

 

[BassmanPaul]

My wife won't let me near her Scotch!!!

 

[Riff Ranger]

I don't even drink ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Does that help, or not?

 

[Riff Ranger]

... but seriously ... @BogeyBass, @agedhorse: it appears we have more of a mystery here than first met the eye. I still haven't looked for crud inside the speakers, and hope to avoid it, but there's more going on here than a scuzzy jack if you're interested in picking apart a puzzle.

 

[AudioTaper]

Affordable alcohol works well as an audio connector cleaner. Choose a 90-percent or higher solution of high-purity octyl alcohol, which doesn't leave a residue. Don't use rubbing alcohol; it leaves residue behind when it evaporates. Apply the solution with a nonabrasive cloth and gently polish the connector. Ha Ha

We use 99.9% isopropyl alcohol at work for cleaning gold plated connectors and flux from PWBs/CCAs (circuit boards). It works well!
You can get small bottles from Amazon, its 'fairly' inexpensive
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0868R7JF6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_WN.vFb12B9072

 

[AudioTaper]

I don't even drink ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Does that help, or not?

That helps most situations

 

[agedhorse]

We use 99.9% isopropyl alcohol at work for cleaning gold plated connectors and flux from PWBs/CCAs (circuit boards). It works well!
You can get small bottles from Amazon, its 'fairly' inexpensive
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0868R7JF6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_WN.vFb12B9072

Isopropyl works fine for cleaning connectors and especially PCBs BUT I have found long term improvement by wiping the gold plated fingers with DeOxit D-5, really decreases intermittent noises. Of course few manufacturers use gold fingered PCBs and many modern kid designers have never designed with gold fingers.

There is a very thin layer of lubricant that remains after D-5 is used, it's molecules thick when used right. Some pot manufacturers use similar compounds in very small quantities prior to assembly of the pots, but it's not the crap that is sold retail as "magic cure-all spray"

 

[BogeyBass]

So, de-junking the jacks didn’t really solve this after all. The issue didn’t arise in the Scorpion until after several months of regular use; it surfaced almost immediately with the 1516. As the 1516 played just fine with Buster, I would suspect something in the head … but that head and the single Black Widow work together without issues. Clearly this was over my head even when I first brought it up, but I suspect it’s something more like what @agedhorse first mentioned. One other possible piece of the puzzle: I tune low. CGCF, BEAD, even GCGCF (though I don’t ride that low G much). I know that’s asking a lot of old equipment, but there’s a whole genre of doom metal playing older gear lower and louder than I am and their old Sunns and Acoustics seem to do okay.

thats why im lower and louder than you with my dinosaur turd Acoustic that destroys all. lol

anyhoo its just the scorpions right. is there a crossover in their, or you checked actual connections to the speakers or small silver wires from terminal to cone

 

[AudioTaper]

Isopropyl works fine for cleaning connectors and especially PCBs BUT I have found long term improvement by wiping the gold plated fingers with DeOxit D-5, really decreases intermittent noises. Of course few manufacturers use gold fingered PCBs and many modern kid designers have never designed with gold fingers.

There is a very thin layer of lubricant that remains after D-5 is used, it's molecules thick when used right. Some pot manufacturers use similar compounds in very small quantities prior to assembly of the pots, but it's not the crap that is sold retail as "magic cure-all spray"

I'm a big fan of a little DeOxit D5, but it's not "approved" for use on connectors at my work. Manufacturers like Virginia Panel Corp, Glenair, Airborn recommend the high purity alcohol. Probably because they dont want people getting DeOxit everywhere.

I keep a can of the ProGold G5 on hand at home also.

 

[agedhorse]

I'm a big fan of a little DeOxit D5, but it's not "approved" for use on connectors at my work. Manufacturers like Virginia Panel Corp, Glenair, Airborn recommend the high purity alcohol. Probably because they dont want people getting DeOxit everywhere.

I keep a can of the ProGold G5 on hand at home also.

Absolutely, if a tiny bit is good, imagination how awesome a whole can would be

 

[Riff Ranger]

thats why im lower and louder than you with my dinosaur turd Acoustic that destroys all. lol

anyhoo its just the scorpions right. is there a crossover in their, or you checked actual connections to the speakers or small silver wires from terminal to cone

I don’t think the 1516 has any Scorpions in it; the badge says “BW EQUIPPED,” the 15 sure looks like a BW, and the 8s don’t have the gray, squared off, stamped look of Scorpions. The back has two full-range inputs and a high and low for bi-amping. I’ve tried both of the full range inputs.

 

[BogeyBass]

I don’t think the 1516 has any Scorpions in it; the badge says “BW EQUIPPED,” the 15 sure looks like a BW, and the 8s don’t have the gray, squared off, stamped look of Scorpions. The back has two full-range inputs and a high and low for bi-amping. I’ve tried both of the full range inputs.

aww thats right, i was confused with the original post.
so its the scorpion, and now the bw cab.

im guessing you switched speaker cables, its not just a intermittent cable i hope

far as squeals at shutdown, usually the amp shutting down. i dont think there is a startup/shutdown relay on the speaker output.
i need to read previous posts better. is it just one amp or does any amp make speaker crackle.

 

[Riff Ranger]

aww thats right, i was confused with the original post.
so its the scorpion, and now the bw cab.

im guessing you switched speaker cables, its not just a intermittent cable i hope

far as squeals at shutdown, usually the amp shutting down. i dont think there is a startup/shutdown relay on the speaker output.
i need to read previous posts better. is it just one amp or does any amp make speaker crackle.

The issue only happens when I use the Mark IV head with the 400w cabs. Mark IV into 700w cab performs just fine. Mesa Buster into 400w cab performs just fine. I have tried different speaker cables (identical, but individuals) in different jacks.