Struggling with drummer’s attitude (long rant warning)

[Tekkers]

Hey all. Having issues with Milky, the drummer in my band. It’s mainly rooted in personality clashes but disguised as creative differences. Regardless, his attitude is really starting to piss me off.


Any constructive solutions would be welcome but to be honest I also just want a good whinge so apologies if this is a bit long-winded.

Milky is a solid and precise drummer but a total control freak. This is not necessarily a bad thing - he’s organised and does most of the band admin and logistics. However it makes him prickly and difficult to collaborate with and lately it’s becoming a nightmare.

As an institutionalised bassist, I try to play ‘for the song’ and I’m generally willing to listen to suggestions and try things in different ways. I’m aware that my ideas aren’t necessarily amazing just because they’re mine, and others are just as likely to have ideas that are at least as good if not better.

CAVEAT 1: It’s hard to be objective about yourself so I’m probably painting myself in a better light than I appear to others.

Milky is less accommodating. If he doesn’t like something he often will try to delay or block it, becomes defensive and awkward when challenged, and is dismissive of decisions made that he hasn’t been involved in. He is hard to compromise with as he only gives way grudgingly and will often make a point of it (eg we decide to change a certain section - next few times we play it he can’t help but say ‘I still think this was better the other way’ etc).

The other band members put up with this as it’s easier to just go along with it. In practice this means that Milky generally gets his way.

CAVEAT 2: I’m currently annoyed at Milky so may be being more critical than usual.

I challenge Milky when I think it’s worth it but I try not to push for my own ideas just because they’re mine. However, artistic quality aside, Milky’s intransigence is getting on my nerves and I think it’s beginning to hold us back.

He occasionally brings his girlfriend to meetings or practices - she plays drums in her own band and is quite opinionated and offers a lot of unsolicited advice on how to run the band. I wouldn’t reject her suggestions out of hand (although they’re no usually relevant), but she will invariably side with him in disputes and trying to tactfully point out that she isn’t in the band and therefore doesn’t have a casting vote tends to be havdwaved away with the excuse of ‘yes but she’s in a band so she knows what she’s talking about’. The fact that all of us are in a band, let alone the band in question, is seemingly lost on her.

Milky and I had an issue at practice a few weeks ago where he got a bit personal with his criticism of an idea of mine, in a way I felt was inappropriate.

CAVEAT 3: I don’t usually take criticism of my ideas personally - in fact I endeavour not to - but some comments went over that line into personal criticism which was unwarranted.

We spoke about it a short time later and I considered the matter resolved. But again, on Wednesday evening we had the same issue come up again. We’re shooting a music video tomorrow, we held a planning meeting on Wednesday where it became clear he had already got a fixed idea of what he wanted and wouldn’t compromise. He had gone as far as writing up his own script, booking a space and lights etc that were sufficient for his own idea only and kept presenting his idea as a fait accompli - ‘well we agreed the other day this was what we would do’ etc - and again made some needless, borderline personal comments - ‘your idea is just a Tekkers idea, this is a band idea, if we leave it to you then you’ll just do it your way’ and similar.

I’m not wedded to my own ideas above all else, but I resent the underhanded way he’s gone about ensuring he gets what he wants. It also seems that our conversation where we had settled our differences, obviously achieved nothing of the sort, and he either doesn’t realise this is how he comes across, or doesn’t particularly care.

I’m not feeling particularly motivated for the video shoot tomorrow and it’s left me wondering how long I can continue to work like this. His girlfriend will also likely come along and then I’ll lose control of the process completely.

CAVEAT 4: I will do my level best not to let my own feelings turn into an attitude problem on my part but it will take conscious effort.

</rant>

So, I guess, if anyone is still reading, what would you do in this situation?
I don’t want to be at loggerheads with Milky the whole time, and I don’t want to have to fight for every little idea. But it’s become tiring to deal with and sucks some of the fun out of playing music.
I also don’t want to walk away and let his attitude drive me out of the band.

But I don’t like the drama, I feel like I’m running out of patience and I’m not sure what to do about it.


TL;DR drummer is a difficult personality and it’s making being in a band very frustrating.

 

[PauFerro]

This clearly not a peer-based band. He is in the control, and wants to be that way. If you still want to be part of this project, I would consider yourself a contracted musician, and just do what he wants. Stop looking at it as a democracy.

I personally think he's in the wrong to make personal comments, not to take your suggestions, etcetera. A good leader would be keeping a balance of input given and accepted to make sure there is sufficient inclusion felt by everyone. A good leader will call shots but do so with judgment and also, by relying on the wisdom of the people with specific talents in their group. Without inclusion, you get team member withdrawal -- it's a research-proven fact. And I think you are experiencing that. Leaders should be englighted entrepreneurs, not self-serving dictators. Sounds like you've got a caustic dictator.

Now, when it comes time to pony up money for video shoots, recordings, promo materials, photo shoots, hosting fees, etcetera, I would not put a dime into it. The price the leader pays for calling the shots is /she has to fund the band. That's my rule. As soon as you ask the "employee musicians" or "hired guns" to fund the band, it must be a partnership and you no longer hold the reigns. So, if he wants to be the sole operator/owner, then he has to handle the money, along with all the admin and promotion. He should expect nothing from the musicians but to show up and play.

I would also play for free on a limited basis if that comes up. If he ever calls me on any of that, I would indicate my feelings on the subject.

In one band, I kept track of the number of suggestions I made, and the number that were accepted. At one rehearsal it was 10 to 0 accepted, at another, 10 to 1 accepted and so on. I showed them the facts, and they couldn't say much. Eventually I saw them for what they were -- a bunch of inexperienced musicians who were too arrogant to accept direction from someone who knew the lay of the land better than them (I had been running working, paid bands for years, and none of them had done that. One was a narcissist, the other young and over-confident).

I eventually quit and did my own thing. It was the best decision ever.

They later became a success in our town, but it was only after the "I think I know everything" heavyweight in the band fired the singer and guitarist and joined an established band that needed the remaining 3 musicians in the band. The band had an entrepreneur in it (an enlightened one, from all counts), and had the venues and code down for paid success, so they hitched a ride. Their success was purely a result of lucking into someone who had gigs and knew what they were doing.

So, decide how much of your inner peace you are willing to give up with this guy. Weigh the benefits, both practically and emotionally. If you find you are spending more time fuming or ruminating on the bad stuff in the band, seriously consider cutting them out of your life, but do so offering to be a sub or something after they get their code together. Let someone else put up with the rehearsing and finding themselves. When they get a recording together, learn your part off the recording and show and play, get paid (if possible) and go home. I never burn bridges, only take a back seat.

In my view, happiness is the goal of our existence, and we are here to live our lives with fulfilment and, for lack of a better word "joy". If music starts causing grief and misery, it's time to move on.

My solution has always been to create my own thing on my own terms, and it's never been a disappointment. But you have to be willing to work at admin, do sales, arrange rehearsal and a lot of hard stuff. It's the entry fee for calling the shots.

 

[-Stingray]

Couple of questions....and some thoughts:

1. Is Milky the band leader?
2. Assuming you are doing originals......is the material his?

If answer to both 1 & 2 are yes, I think you need to find a way to deal with it, or possibly consider leaving the band. If answer to above questions is no (and the others agree), then it sounds like a band meeting is in order where you all tell Milky to shape up or be replaced.

 

[robd]

and then I’ll lose control of the process completely.

Sounds like the issue is that you both want to be lead dog and have it your own way. But sounds like he's winning

Do like PF says... create your own thing, then you can be in control

 

[soulman969]

Some drummers are like some wives.

You can't stand their negativity, you can't get along with them, and you can't shoot 'em so you endure.

 

[Ronzo]

Passive-aggressive and manipulative behaviors work counter to a so-called egalitarian or cooperative band.

I was in a cover band for a short time with an individual who stated that he would happily learn the new material that I and other members brought to the table. At the following rehearsals, the only songs he had prepared were the ones he had chosen.

I waited for six weeks or so for that to change. It did not.

“‘Bye, Felicia.”

 

[two fingers]

He's a jerk. You see, jerks get loud when they want their way. Usually, getting loud works because we live in an age of avoiding conflict at all costs.

However, conflict, among ADULTS, usually ends up with a resolution and a SOlution to the problem. In other words, you bicker a little. You figure it out. You hug it out. And you move on.

This, clearly, is not what you're all about.

And that's just you and the drummer. Getting the girlfriend involved in hand business is ALWAYS a bad idea. I don't care if she's been the road manager for BonJovi for thirty years.

You can't win that one. She brings something powerful to the table that you don't. I'll leave it at that.

This is a bad situation.

You have two choices.

1) Stand up for yourself on occasion and let the chips fall where they may.

2) Quit. Because it isn't going to get any better on its own.

 

[Scottgun]

He occasionally brings his girlfriend to meetings or practices

I stopped reading right there. Titanic, meet iceberg.

 

[garp]

Sounds like Milky is way past the "Sell By" date.

 

[filmtex]

I stopped reading right there. Titanic, meet iceberg.

Yep. That's where I'd be out. Been nice fella's, see ya around. Laters...

 

[DoctorZee]

Wasn't Milky one of the Pac Man ghosts?

 

[crguti]

Is this a cover band or originals? Is he talented? Are his ideas good?

 

[swink]

I only see "I's"... Get over it, I think we all wish for a "Rock-Solid-Drummer".
He is, who he is, try to cope with it... There must be things he has to take from you, that you don't know.
We're all people with our little things, talk to eachother to clear the way and come to a consensus.

If the drummer and the bass-player can't work it out in a band.... there's no band to talk about.

BTW?... how old are you guys?

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

As an institutionalised bassist

Someone get Tekkers a Pepsi. Just one.

Joking aside, that really sucks. I hope you get it sorted out, personally I would very seriously consider leaving the band; people like Milky rarely change their attitude. It’s possible, but so is finding a winning megabucks ticket on the sidewalk. I wouldn’t base any serious decisions around the possibility of it happening.

 

[Tekkers]

Couple of questions....and some thoughts:

1. Is Milky the band leader?
2. Assuming you are doing originals......is the material his?

If answer to both 1 & 2 are yes, I think you need to find a way to deal with it, or possibly consider leaving the band. If answer to above questions is no (and the others agree), then it sounds like a band meeting is in order where you all tell Milky to shape up or be replaced.

1. No. He and the singer were in a band together before though, although this band started about a year and a half when myself and two guitarists joined them. So in terms of time in the band, we’re on a level playing field.

2. We play originals, but they aren’t ‘his’. A lot of the ideas come from myself or one of the guitarists and we tend to kick ideas around until we’re happy with them. Milky’s input is usually regarding arrangements which range from useful (‘try that riff after the chorus rather than before’) to unhelpful (‘I don’t like that riff, you need to change it - I don’t know how, just make it different’).

Sounds like Milky is way past the "Sell By" date.

Zing!

Is this a cover band or originals? Is he talented? Are his ideas good?

He’s a good drummer and musically we work well. See above for his ideas, sometimes they are useful and other times they come across as interference for its own sake.

He and I often write together, with my riffs thrown into the mix and him offering suggestions on how to arrange them. Recently the vocalist and I wrote a song and presented it to the band as an idea and Milky became quite frustrated; I suspect this was a ‘fear of missing out’ situation and he was trying to make the point that he should be involved in any future ideas generation.
I’m also prepared to accept that that idea may have benefitted from sone input and I’m trying not to be defensive; but I feel his reaction was overboard and I would assess it was due to Milky feeling threatened by the thought of unlicensed creativity taking place without him.

I only see "I's"... Get over it, I think we all wish for a "Rock-Solid-Drummer".
He is, who he is, try to cope with it... There must be things he has to take from you, that you don't know.
We're all people with our little things, talk to eachother to clear the way and come to a consensus.

If the drummer and the bass-player can't work it out in a band.... there's no band to talk about.

BTW?... how old are you guys?

We’re in our late 20s. So yeah, maybe drama feels more acute, who knows.
I don’t doubt there are frustrating things about my approach too so I’m trying to be as objective as possible.
However, this isn’t work - this is supposed to be fun and if I have to either settle for constant compromise, or for constantly dealing with a difficult personality, then there will be less fun to be had.

Talking it out with him would be my preferred approach as I want a resolution, although we spoke before and I thought it was settled. Then it seemed he reverted to his old ways so I’m not sure if it worked. Maybe it will work a second time with a different approach, I’ll have to see.




Appreciate everyone’s input and suggestions btw, it’s great to be able to call on this much collective experience.

 

[Al T.]

Milky and girlfriend out vote the rest of the band - get out of the trap now.

 

[And I]

Simple solution: get a new drummer...

 

[murphy]

Hey all. Having issues with Milky, the drummer in my band. It’s mainly rooted in personality clashes but disguised as creative differences. Regardless, his attitude is really starting to piss me off.


Any constructive solutions would be welcome but to be honest I also just want a good whinge so apologies if this is a bit long-winded.

Milky is a solid and precise drummer but a total control freak. This is not necessarily a bad thing - he’s organised and does most of the band admin and logistics. However it makes him prickly and difficult to collaborate with and lately it’s becoming a nightmare.

As an institutionalised bassist, I try to play ‘for the song’ and I’m generally willing to listen to suggestions and try things in different ways. I’m aware that my ideas aren’t necessarily amazing just because they’re mine, and others are just as likely to have ideas that are at least as good if not better.

CAVEAT 1: It’s hard to be objective about yourself so I’m probably painting myself in a better light than I appear to others.

Milky is less accommodating. If he doesn’t like something he often will try to delay or block it, becomes defensive and awkward when challenged, and is dismissive of decisions made that he hasn’t been involved in. He is hard to compromise with as he only gives way grudgingly and will often make a point of it (eg we decide to change a certain section - next few times we play it he can’t help but say ‘I still think this was better the other way’ etc).

The other band members put up with this as it’s easier to just go along with it. In practice this means that Milky generally gets his way.

CAVEAT 2: I’m currently annoyed at Milky so may be being more critical than usual.

I challenge Milky when I think it’s worth it but I try not to push for my own ideas just because they’re mine. However, artistic quality aside, Milky’s intransigence is getting on my nerves and I think it’s beginning to hold us back.

He occasionally brings his girlfriend to meetings or practices - she plays drums in her own band and is quite opinionated and offers a lot of unsolicited advice on how to run the band. I wouldn’t reject her suggestions out of hand (although they’re no usually relevant), but she will invariably side with him in disputes and trying to tactfully point out that she isn’t in the band and therefore doesn’t have a casting vote tends to be havdwaved away with the excuse of ‘yes but she’s in a band so she knows what she’s talking about’. The fact that all of us are in a band, let alone the band in question, is seemingly lost on her.

Milky and I had an issue at practice a few weeks ago where he got a bit personal with his criticism of an idea of mine, in a way I felt was inappropriate.

CAVEAT 3: I don’t usually take criticism of my ideas personally - in fact I endeavour not to - but some comments went over that line into personal criticism which was unwarranted.

We spoke about it a short time later and I considered the matter resolved. But again, on Wednesday evening we had the same issue come up again. We’re shooting a music video tomorrow, we held a planning meeting on Wednesday where it became clear he had already got a fixed idea of what he wanted and wouldn’t compromise. He had gone as far as writing up his own script, booking a space and lights etc that were sufficient for his own idea only and kept presenting his idea as a fait accompli - ‘well we agreed the other day this was what we would do’ etc - and again made some needless, borderline personal comments - ‘your idea is just a Tekkers idea, this is a band idea, if we leave it to you then you’ll just do it your way’ and similar.

I’m not wedded to my own ideas above all else, but I resent the underhanded way he’s gone about ensuring he gets what he wants. It also seems that our conversation where we had settled our differences, obviously achieved nothing of the sort, and he either doesn’t realise this is how he comes across, or doesn’t particularly care.

I’m not feeling particularly motivated for the video shoot tomorrow and it’s left me wondering how long I can continue to work like this. His girlfriend will also likely come along and then I’ll lose control of the process completely.

CAVEAT 4: I will do my level best not to let my own feelings turn into an attitude problem on my part but it will take conscious effort.

</rant>

So, I guess, if anyone is still reading, what would you do in this situation?
I don’t want to be at loggerheads with Milky the whole time, and I don’t want to have to fight for every little idea. But it’s become tiring to deal with and sucks some of the fun out of playing music.
I also don’t want to walk away and let his attitude drive me out of the band.

But I don’t like the drama, I feel like I’m running out of patience and I’m not sure what to do about it.


TL;DR drummer is a difficult personality and it’s making being in a band very frustrating.

There is always one in every band...welcome to a lifetime of frustration...musicians suck

 

[buldog5151bass]

Time for the entire band to sit down and talk - NOT at a rehearsal or gig, and agree on some rules. Sounds lovely keep no friends/significant others. Second, if here is a band issue, band votes - majority rules.

It sounds like your drummer knows how to use his personality to get what he wants. If the rest of the band is willing to put up with it, you better be willing to walk.

 

[Chrisk-K]

he’s organised and does most of the band admin and logistics.

He seems like the BL and likely isn’t too happy with his bass player. I’d quit before being fired.