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Styx Bassists Mic Preamp?

E

eno50

Jan 31, 2009
566
23
North of Memphis
#1
Hello did anyone see Dennis Deyoung and Styx on Sessions today,It seems that his bass player had a or what looked like an mic preamp on top of his twin GK 800rbs and ampeg 810 rig. This is not the frist time i noticed this,I have seen several other players lately with is kind of set up on Austin City limits.
Does anyone know of this or has used this type of set up,are they warming up there signal before it hit there amps preamp or running it thru ther effects loop?
Whats the skinny on this type of set up?
Eno
 
#7
eno50 said:
are they warming up there signal before it hit there amps preamp or running it thru ther effects loop?
Click to expand...

As the other guys said, it was a DI to the mixer. The idea is that they get the cleanest, strongest sound to the mixer, with no noise, regardless of what their amp sounds like or any weirdness with room/stage EQ or echoes or resonance/feedback points, etc.

Some people do also use the U5 as a preamp to drive a power amp for their onstage sound, but that's less common, and certainly not the case for him if he was using two GK heads.
 
#8
Ok, I've got a question here, If you are running through some pedals, would you put that before or after the DI? I understand the difference, Im asking peoples opinions here.

Personally, I play fairly small clubs where they will have a backline provided with a DI sitting on top of the amp. So my chain usually is bass > pedals > DI > Amp with the DI going to FOH and the amp being just for stage volume. But in the studio I like to have a clean and dirty channel blended. What do people to do achieve this live?

Again, I know how to, Im looking for some opinions on what works best live.
 
#9
xanderjbass said:
Ok, I've got a question here, If you are running through some pedals, would you put that before or after the DI? I understand the difference, Im asking peoples opinions here.

Personally, I play fairly small clubs where they will have a backline provided with a DI sitting on top of the amp. So my chain usually is bass > pedals > DI > Amp with the DI going to FOH and the amp being just for stage volume. But in the studio I like to have a clean and dirty channel blended. What do people to do achieve this live?

Again, I know how to, Im looking for some opinions on what works best live.
Click to expand...

depends on the pedals. most will sound fine. Fuzz/Dist/OD usually do not however. try sometime plugging in a fuzz directly to a mixer without an amp. its a pretty cool sound, though probably not what you want.
 
#10
xanderjbass said:
Ok, I've got a question here, If you are running through some pedals, would you put that before or after the DI? I understand the difference, Im asking peoples opinions here.

Personally, I play fairly small clubs where they will have a backline provided with a DI sitting on top of the amp. So my chain usually is bass > pedals > DI > Amp with the DI going to FOH and the amp being just for stage volume. But in the studio I like to have a clean and dirty channel blended. What do people to do achieve this live?

Again, I know how to, Im looking for some opinions on what works best live.
Click to expand...

I play full time for a living mostly as a "hired-gun" bassist. (providing solid, consistent bass is what keeps fuel in the car and food on the table) I'm a big proponent of effects/pedals and I virtually always use them at live performances as well as studio sessions. I always send my 'effected' (post-pedals) tone into the DI so it goes to the front-of-house.

2 important things to keep in mind, however:
a) It's really important that you have an objective ear for what will sound solid & consistent at the front of house. Just because you love how a certain effect sounds, doesn't mean it will translate well in the foh mix. If you send your effects to the pa, make sure you're confident that the tone you've set-up is appropriate for the song/material you are performing and that volume levels/differences are as minimal as possible.

b) Work with the sound engineer. Let him/her know what you are using & what to expect. By establishing this relationship before a tonal "surprise" happens, you can most likely foster an effects ally instead of a conflict with a 'purist' antagonist! (JimmyM may not agree with my approach to engineers, but ime, getting the soundguy to want to work with you is priceless. Far more so than: "I'm the performer, this is what I want!")

Effects can sound great in the FOH mix through a DI! Although, sending a completely "dry" tone to the pa & having the engineer mic up your "effected" amp is pretty magical too. Unfortunately, bass cabinet mic'ing continues to be a dying trend.

On the other hand, effects to the foh can quickly ruin a mix. Judicious & well thought out application is the key. Effects are fun & can add a lot to the sonic formula, but they're also one of the easiest ways to kill a solid bass foundation and upset a mix. Experience and trial & error will be your guide!

One other point: I've found that my effected signal to the foh sounds a lot better through certain DI's. I've found that my warm Aguilar tube DI lets me get a more natural sound than with a less 'colored' DI like a Countryman/Radial or cheap Rapco/Whirlwind/etc... Having a bit of mojo from a good DI can help to make some of the more aggressive effects easier for the engineer to digest.
 
#11
I'm personally not a fan of effects (read: fuzz, distortion) being DI'd. For review purposes like on Grygryx's BassFuzz.com then its the most representative way of getting the sound of the pedal, but live i just hate it.

I use a VTbass at the end of my chain as my main 'amp' tone and this goes into my DI - so the speaker emulation actually rolls off at about 5k so that frequencies i wouldnt like to be DI's arent put out FOH.

Obviously, this is just what I do. If you have an expensive amp that no doubt sounds better than any modelling pedal then this wouldnt be what you want. I'm quite a big fuzz user and I find that its the best way for me to get a consistant 'dry-but-amped' tone FOH and not worry about my fuzz pedals sounding like complete ass through a DI.

Part of me would love a Avalon U5, infact my drummer's dad has an Avalon Preamp and its fantastic, but as far as my setup goes im happy with what ive got.
 
#12
A lot of players will use a dedicated DI to the FOH for the simple reason that most onboard amp DIs cannot match the quality of a good dedicated DI. Look at the price of something like the Avalon, Demeter, Summit, or Aguilar DI boxes and you get a good idea why that type of quality is simple not cost effective to put into the average bass amp.
 
#13
What I do when I run into "festival" situations with a house backline and D.I. box is, I pull out my handy SansAmp BDDI and insert it inline between my bass and the 1/4 inch input on the house D.I. Set the level on my SansAmp so it matches the signal from my bass (or perhaps just a very slight boost) and voila... I get the tubey warmth I need without hassling the sound tech by swapping in my D.I. for his. BTW if you're going to do this, don't go nuts on the tone shaping with the SansAmp... send the board as close to a "flat" signal as possible.
 
#14
R Baer said:
A lot of players will use a dedicated DI to the FOH for the simple reason that most onboard amp DIs cannot match the quality of a good dedicated DI. Look at the price of something like the Avalon, Demeter, Summit, or Aguilar DI boxes and you get a good idea why that type of quality is simple not cost effective to put into the average bass amp.
Click to expand...

No one has ever complained about the DI from my Genz Benz Shuttle. I'm not playing stadiums, just smaller clubs and the occasional outdoor thing, but it has been working so far.

I keep trying to tell myself I NEED to spend $500 on an Avalon, but so far the GAS is contained.
 
#15
If you want the simplest, cleanest, most direct DI output then our DI's in the pre position, line level is about as direct as they come. Two operational amplifiers handle the entire signal path. As things get more and more "trick", there are more devices in the signal path to color the sound and add noise. Then there are tricks to reduce the noise that would have otherwise been added, then there are tricks to color the color. Then there is the cost for the tricks. Not unsubstantial cost either.

If color is what you are looking for, there's plenty of DI's that add color. It's a personal choice. If the instrument's natural tone is what you are looking for, many bass amps pre DI output is probably less colored and maybe quieter too.
 
#16
agedhorse said:
If you want the simplest, cleanest, most direct DI output then our DI's in the pre position, line level is about as direct as they come.
Click to expand...

This is how I run. I never hear anything but compliments from FOH guys. Did an outdoor gig this weekend and had no complaints. My bass sounded great.

Lately, I have taken everything out of the signal path. No effects, no tuner, nothing. Bass to amp to FOH. Pretty tough to beat that. Clean, clear, tight and focused tone. Works for any gig.
 
#17
my .02...

effects should come before the DI, unless you are specifically mic'ing the speaker for the effected sound and the FOH engineer wants a clean DI for consistent low end or something...

in my case, on tour with nerve, we usually use 2 DI boxes, a mic on the cabinet, and the built in DI on the amp, which only goes direct to jojo's in-ear-monitor mixer. the first DI is after my OC2, before all other pedals. this gives roli a clean and consistent sub bass signal, and he usually mults this at the console for additional processing and distortion (usually one outboard piece and one totally distorted console channel)... there is then another DI at the end of my pedal board before the amp, and then an re20 or d12 (not d112) on the cabinet for the tone of the amp and speakers. jojo takes a feed off the amp DI straight to his in-ear mixer so that he has a direct feed of my sound the way it hits the amp.

but, that all said, if there is only one DI, it definitely goes post FX.

john
 
#20
JimmyM said:
Dennis DeYoung is back with Styx???
Click to expand...

Nope...it was him solo. He played most of the hits he sang with Styx, though. He did mention that he doesn't have any sort of relationship with anyone from Styx anymore, but would really like to be in the band again.

Honestly, he seemed like a cheeseball for most of the show. I even saw an eye roll and smirk from the keyboard player at one point in response to something cheesy he did during a song.
 

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