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Sub-Woofers

Skel

Skel

Jun 19, 2005
3,237
45
Boulder, Colorado
#1
The best live sounds I think I've ever heard didn't have sub-woofers, unless they existed within a conventional PA system and weren't called this.

I've heard a band (at church) with subwoofers and it makes me crazy - it's so blatantly over the top. Is this most likely just the person mixing sound for this band? In other words, would any semi "has been" band, like Rush, for example, be likely using subwoofers? Because they still sound really good.
 
#2
Skel said:
The best live sounds I think I've ever heard didn't have sub-woofers, unless they existed within a conventional PA system and weren't called this.

I've heard a band (at church) with subwoofers and it makes me crazy - it's so blatantly over the top. Is this most likely just the person mixing sound for this band? In other words, would any semi "has been" band, like Rush, for example, be likely using subwoofers? Because they still sound really good.
Click to expand...

:hiding:
 
#4
It's the sound guy. Subwoofers, like any other audio tool, can be overused. And, yes, Rush is almost certainly using subwoofers in their live reinforcement, or that is to say, whoever Rush hires to do their touring sound reinforcement, Clair ShowCo, if I'm not mistaken.

See this article:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#5
amper said:
It's the sound guy. Subwoofers, like any other audio tool, can be overused. And, yes, Rush is almost certainly using subwoofers in their live reinforcement, or that is to say, whoever Rush hires to do their touring sound reinforcement, Clair ShowCo, if I'm not mistaken.

See this article:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...

Ok, so it is the sound guy - thanks. I haven't listened to your link yet, I will. Not sure how long the "subwoofer" has been in use but maybe your link talks to that.
 
#6
Skel said:
Ok, so it is the sound guy - thanks. I haven't listened to your link yet, I will. Not sure how long the "subwoofer" has been in use but maybe your link talks to that.
Click to expand...

No offense taken, I grew up listening to Rush, but that doesn't mean everyone has to love them.

When I saw them in Detroit in July, there was a phenominal array of speakers, and as said before, almost certainly some subwoofers. The frequency range of a sub is such that pushing them real hard in an enclosed environment is going to lead to what I consider auditory discomfort....
 
#7
nohbudi said:
No offense taken, I grew up listening to Rush, but that doesn't mean everyone has to love them.

When I saw them in Detroit in July, there was a phenominal array of speakers, and as said before, almost certainly some subwoofers. The frequency range of a sub is such that pushing them real hard in an enclosed environment is going to lead to what I consider auditory discomfort....
Click to expand...

Ok, well just to set the record straight, I grew up on them too. I listened to "Fly By Night" so many times it's absurd - just to hear that unbelievable bass tone. I heard 2112, and haven't heard tone like that since.

PS - my brother-in-law is a pro sound man, and he tours with Rush right now, but not as their sound man. I can still ask him though -he would know. He also was on "The Who"'s last tour.

So, I saw Rush fifth row center at a beautiful outdoor ampitheatre called "Red Rocks". They opened with a long instrumental and I swear I just about fell down, the sound quality was so good.
 
#10
If an ensemble has a bass or a drum kit running through the PA, there should be subs. Trouble is, most soundpersons don't know how to get rid of the boom and let the good bottom end be heard (or they've never heard real bottom end, so they don't know any better). With most club sized PAs, a healthy cut on the graphic at 80Hz is a big help. (With many large PAs too.)
 
#11
Timmy is dead-on. Subs are great if used right. They can also ruin the sound of your bass if not. I like to roll off a little lower than Timmy depending on the venue, but a lot of that 60 hz and under info is unnecessary in a mix. But it also depends on the type of mix as well. If you have a big kick sound, you would want to give it the bottom of the mix from 50 hz on down, but if you have a smaller kick sound like certain types of jazz and 50's rock and roll, you might be able to get lower with the bass and slot the kick higher. Sometimes my bands do that, and it works pretty well but it has to be a lighter type of music. That just won't do with heavier styles.

But I agree that a lot of guys are totally obnoxious with the subs.
 
#12
As a sound guy, I can say that if the subs are too loud, it is not the fault of the subs BEING THERE, it's an issue with the soundman running them too hard. A good sound guy will run an real-time audio analyzer to figure out exactly how to EQ a system for a room for optimal "flat" sound. If there is a huge boomy bottom, it's probably because he has the subs cranked or a bad EQ setup.
 

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