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Subtle or over the top?

#41
My effects are noticable but not overwhelming.

pedal.jpg


The MXR bass di+ gives me a clean "Eden" like sound.
The Tech 21 VT bass gives me an ampeg tube-like sound.
The Marshall Guvnor gives me a midrange distorted sound.
The Line6 bass pod gives me many different distorted sounds.

I run all 4 in parallel and blend them together for a nice bass tone.
 
#43
Not necessarily over the top, but I want effects to be noticeable.

I have seen some players (both bassist and guitards) that tap dance their pedals all night and I never hear a a difference in the sound. Sounded like a straight signal before and after. Plus the pedals seem to be distracting them. I don't see the point of using an effect if you can't hear it. When a player punches a pedal, I want to hear a difference.

Well, I guess that means I am in the over the top camp :D
 
#44
agreatheight said:
Subtle = Pointless, imo, in the majority of instances.
Click to expand...

Whereas I'd say over the top is way too "in your face" in the majority of instances. Yeah, I can hear exactly what effects you're using, but its often to the detriment of the music.

There are times when something face-melting is called for, but there are times where you just want a little sparkle across the top of your tone to make it stand out a little. Sometimes turning the dial up one more increment is the difference between smiling at a woman across the room at a party and running over to her with your boxers on your head and screaming, "Partys over here! WOOOOOO!"
 
#45
I used to be all for subtlety. I would play with an effect until I found my favorite sound. Then I'd turn it off. Usually I could barely hear the difference. Somehow that changed a couple years ago. I'm still not Mr Overthetop, I usually keep the gain on my Blueberry at 7:00 which is a bit heavier than I might want in my bedroom but works nicely with drums and guitar. My usual compressor setting is pretty transparent but I like that down sweep filter sound that's never subtle. I just got an envelope phaser that's more subtle than that. Most days my pallet is fairly consistent and I use my 1/2 dozen stock sounds that work well with the band, "my voice", which is relatively subtle. Other times I go exploring and find new sounds that might work well for specific recordings rather than live ensemble playing. These are often either more over the top.
I'm curious about how other people use a general purpose arsenal vs. more song specific sounds.
 
#46
When songwriting I'll use different tones just as much as different note choices to evoke every possible human emotion and/or emotional response. Depending on what I want to evoke or say, I'm very open to trying any tonal color or combination of notes to find how I can evoke a certain feeling with the exact right connotations I want to give it to tell the story.

But the over the top element comes in when I want to "caricature" or exaggerate a certain emotion to communicate it more strongly to the audience, emphasizing my point. But some emotions are more "subtle" in intensity or tender, and I'll use not only attack, choice of notes, phrasing, etc. to evoke what I want but any number of subtle or not so subtle shadings that will give the story the right connotations to get my point across.

It's about so much more than what "supports" the song, which is what we're primarily concerned with only as sidemen. It's about so much more than "lead" and "rhythm". In the hands of an experienced musician a bass can be used to effectively evoke just as wide a range of ideas as say, a guitar, and therefore can be just as effective at making music.

What I mean by that is something totally expressive; as some of you I expect will have noticed many "basslines" by some certain players don't exactly sound like "music" on their own. They just "support" the song. But bass can do so much more than that, and that's why more "musical" bass playing is what really catches my ear.

But it's because many bassists allow themselves to be relegated to simply "supporting the song" and "being subtle" that we don't tap into the infinite possibilities there are with a bass guitar, so many of which have not really been done effectively yet. But anyways, I've got to stop ranting so in short, cheers to you my heavy effect using brethren! You're on the front lines pushing the boundaries of musical expression on this yet young and wonderful instrument! Don't let yourself be confined to a support role as a sideman to some shallow minded guitarists that don't have a clue about the possibilities that exist with bass. Rock on!
 
#48
[rant]

You know. I hate the whole "support the song" argument/reasoning. It seems redundant and just a cop out if it sucks. Personally I just CREATE music.

Do I support what I create? Of course. If I didn't I wouldn't create it in the first place :p If it sucks, it sucks. Im not gonna put the responsibility for why it sucks totally on the song. Which is basically what you can do with that phrase. "That song sucks" -> "well, I was just SUPPORTING the song, so its not my fault"

Its kindof like saying that you cannot control a fear. Most people who say that just don't seem to want to take responsibility or control of their lives.

[/rant]

Anyways. I do sortof agree tho. Most people wouldn't use a boost->higainfuzz type setup if they want to create a love song. Well, I might, but most likely not.....
 
#49
Most of the time I play dry, and when I kick in an effect, it's more like a "special effect" designed to evoke a response, so I definitely want it to be noticed.

Most of my "dry" playing does include a wee bit of overdrive, though. I find having just a little OD on the bass kinda helps glue the whole mix together.
 
#50
I'll be happy to weigh in on this topic.

It's all about why you are using them.

I understand that some players want to slap the audience in the forehead when they step on a pedal. I dont have any issue with that. But it isnt me.

As I've mentioned numerous times, I use a compressor, a bass EQ and bass chorus at all times to shape my tone. A compressor is invisible to the untrained ear, as is an EQ. The chorus is dialed in to be subtle, and to add a bit of color to the sound without drawing attention to itself. When I turn it off, you wonder, "where did the richness go?", but when it's on, you dont fixate on it.

I use a mild overdrive, to fatten up the tone and fill in the hole left in the sound during a guitar lead. But, again, I dont want to draw attention to it. Just the opposite; the point is to make the music go on as normal as much as possible.

The only effect I have that is intended to draw attention to itself is my MXR Distortion+.

So, yeah I totally relate to the desire to keep effects subtle.
I also understand the other side, though, so I reiterate that it's all about why you are using them.
 
#51
JimmyM said:
I hear a lot of talk about subtlety with their effects...people want them but they want them to be subtle. I hear things like, "If you notice them, they're too much."

I'm not seeing the point of that. I tried being subtle when I first started using effects again, and as time goes on, I dial up way more over-the-top sounds. As most of my gigs are oldies gigs, naturally I'm not using a Nocto Loco or anything, but when I kick them on, I want people to know they're on, with the exception of compression, which I quit using a year ago.

Anyone have any opinions they'd like to share about it? I know folks on here are very shy about their opinions, so try to force yourself to open up ;)
Click to expand...

If you don't notice them, what's the bloody point of using them?

Sometimes fuzzed-out chaos just WORKS:)
 
#54
Some folks believe that you should gently coax the sound out of your instrument. I am not one of those folks. I’ve played mostly barefoot over the years but I’m a firm believer in forcefully dragging the sound, kicking and screaming, out of your instrument.

The first effect I ever really used aside from an eq pedal for my upright and the built in chorus on a GK head I had years ago was a Mutron so subtle wasn’t really the deal.

I’ve been putting a pedal board together recently because well, because I can. Yeah, I’ve got some EQish pedals and a fake SVT pedal but when I stomp on the top row, it’s 70’s porn and funky time! My guitard gave me crap about it at first but if I’m gonna trade 4’s with him over some funky type tunes, I’m gonna get noticeably funky.
 
#55
Mark Olson said:
But it's because many bassists allow themselves to be relegated to simply "supporting the song" and "being subtle" that we don't tap into the infinite possibilities there are with a bass guitar!
Click to expand...

I don't think "supporting the song" and "being subtle" have to be the same, it just depends on the situation. I've never felt limited and actually enjoyed writing a bass line that is from my heart and supports the song in some way(no, not just the guitard)
On the other hand if I'm writing a bass line by myself there is nothing to add to so it's a different story and I just play whatever comes out. I use the same theory when using effects, playing styles, etc. If it's from my heart, sounds good and helps the song(which of course is subjective) then I'm happy.
 
#56
For overdrive, I like subtle.
For chorus, I like wet.
For phaser, I like subtle.
For distortion, I like over the top.
For fuzz, I like both.
For filters, I like them responsive.

It really depends on the effect.
 

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