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Suggestions for a 10"/12" low sensitivity full range woofer for sealed cabinets

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Boneless, Feb 21, 2018.


  1. Hi everyone,

    I've always toyed with the idea of building my own cabinet... I've never got round to it, but I might this time, as I have a bit more time on my hands lately. I usually record my own music but recording my 800RB with its Neo212 cabinet is a bit of a hassle (for its high volume basically).

    So, I was thinking of building a sealed cabinet (punchier sound, easier placement) with a really low sensitivity speaker so that, if I ever had the need or chance to record with a (small) valve amp, for example, it'd be easier for me to crank it; ideally, it would have a high enough xmax and a low enough f3 (you don't usually record bass frequencies from the mic, it's cleaner to take them from the DI; it's just for the power handling really and I never tune below a low D anyway, and besides, I'm not looking for modern sounds with lots of fundamental, quite the contrary) but most of all a high enough upper frequency range limit (well, as in "usable frequencies") as I'd build it without a tweeter (it's awful with overdrive and it's pointless for recording anyway). I was thinking of home audio speakers or large near/mid-field monitor speakers, either 10" or 12" (smaller speakers may be too tight/precise sounding, I like some "sag"). My 800RB outputs 180W@8ohms with its large power amp and 100W@8ohm with its small one (it's a bi-amp amp if you're not familiar with it), I'd ideally use the larger one and crank it (it's the kind of SS amp that likes to be cranked) so let's say a ~200W AES speaker, but that'd still be quite loud so higher ohm speakers (16 or 32 even) would be handy, if they exist. But I wouldn't be against lower power ratings, even much lower than that (and I suppose that would lower xmax requirements and give me a wider choice, and also keep the price low). I suppose I might not even be that picky about xmax, some slight overexcursion is not the end of the world as long as it's sane (it mainly adds some distortion and compression, which may be pleasing), many guitarists actually look for that "speaker break-up".

    I'm based in Europe so I was either looking at Eminence (which has worldwide distribution) or local manufacturers such as Ciare, Beyma, etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  2. I had a look around and these seem interesting:

    http://loudspeakerfreaks.com/datasheets/dayton/ds270-8.pdf
    http://loudspeakerfreaks.com/datasheets/dayton/ds315-8.pdf

    What do you think? They both have low power handling but would allow for a small-ish box, decent f3/f10 (around 53-58Hz/33-34Hz respectively), good range (up to 3.5-4kHz on axis, with a rising upper-mid response as with traditional bass woofers - some woofers are flatter but apparently they sound dull with bass) and also have low enough sensitivity. Under €100 too which is great. I'm not familiar with the brand though. Of course higher power ratings would be better, if only for peace of mind.
     
  3. Build your cab at 16 ohms.
     
  4. 16 ohm woofers are not very easy to find. Full range ones especially. The only one that comes to mind is the Eminence Legend B810 (?), which I suppose it's meant to work in an Ampeg 8x10" and it's 32 ohms.
     
  5. saabfender

    saabfender Inactive

    Jan 10, 2018
    Indianapolis
    This is essentially Part Express' house brand. Been to their store a few times (they are just south of Dayton, OH). The Dayton drivers are primarily Asian imprints. They've had some in their clearance bin and I wasn't at all impressed. The Eminence stuff I've had has been excellent. Got a couple in the silver-faced Twin. Really good speakers. It's tough as hell shopping for speakers by looking at data sheets. They tell you virtually nothing. Those can be made to look however the manufacturer wants them to look.
     
  6. Ursa

    Ursa

    Feb 1, 2018
    Western Michigan
    I'd just use an attenuator between the tube head and the cabinet. Crank the amp up, button down the attenuator, and you're in overdrive at any desired volume.
     
    lz4005 likes this.
  7. The thing is, a low sensitivity cabinet turns in handy at home too so I'd have more than one reason to build one. It's not as if it's that expensive after all. Sealed tends to make it smaller too (with the right driver).
     
  8. FWIW, these speakers are from their "Designer" line, which is probably a higher-range line. Their "Classic" speakers are around €30-40 while these come in at more than double the price. €80-90 for a 100-120W AES speaker isn't exactly cheap and they seem suited to the job spec-wise. I might bite the bullet if I can't find anything else. The thing is, the only alternative from Eminence is the Beta 12 because all their other speakers are either devised for mid-bass applications or are strictly to be installed in a vented cab.
     
  9. Rick James

    Rick James Inactive

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    Data sheets don't show low frequency response in a cabinet. You need to use loudspeaker modeling software for that. They do show the mid and high frequency response, which isn't very good with hi-fi woofers that are only intended to be used to 2 kHz or lower. Electric bass drivers are much better.
    Not necessarily. When you see recommended box sizes it's for maximally flat response. Most drivers will give maximally flat response in a smaller sealed cab than ported, but the trade off is usually about an octave of low frequency extension.
    The suggestion to go with a real electric bass cab and use your volume control to keep the level down is the best one.
     
    agedhorse likes this.
  10. Actually, I have modelled the two woofers in WinISD Pro, and they both seem satisfactory (as I said, f3 in the mid-50Hz) in a 40 litre box.

    Here is the frequency response for an Eminence Legend BP122 12" woofer which is specifically designed for bass guitar applications.

    Legend_BP122.png

    The woofer cuts off at ~2.5kHz quite abruptly. I think I modelled it too and it'd need a larger cab and it would have a higher f3 as well (but I'll double-check).

    While this is for the Dayton Audio DS315-8 12" woofer I was looking at:

    IMG_20180222_221028.png
    This woofer actually rolls off later, although it's less linear in the treble range (but I could always low-pass it at 5kHz or so if it were an issue). So it looks like it could well be suited for the application, to my eyes.

    I know this, but with the right speaker, you can achieve an acceptably low f3 in a small sealed cabinet. Of course installing it in a vented box would allow it to go deeper but I'm happy with 55Hz anyway (which is lower than many bass cabinets).
     
    40w likes this.
  11. SeayBass

    SeayBass Supporting Member

    they will work fine. the basslite s2012 is also good and lighter.
     
  12. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Are you sure there's no error... an F10 of 20Hz with an average sensitivity of 90dB/1W/1M in a small sealed cabinet doesn't look right to me.
     
  13. SeayBass

    SeayBass Supporting Member

    that pic is just the speaker spec sheet, not the modeled box.

    the big difference between the eminence and the dayton drivers is this- the Dayton won't get nearly as loud. It's not a pro audio speaker, which means it's very quiet compared to the others. THis is likely to mean that you turn up the volume on the amp more, which can only tolerate its 120w before danger.

    Check out the S2012. It is louder lighter and goes higher than the others.
    for slightly improved power handling go with the Legend.

    On paper, none of these speakers are able to tolerate the full 200w. All will be able tolerate the 100w.
     

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