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Double Bass Suggestions for the fingering for Arpeggios?

F

Fractal20

Feb 8, 2011
15
0
#1
Hi, I have moved to the upright a year ago from electric bass. My interest is mainly in jazz but I have been studying with a classical teacher for the technique benefits.

I also play a lot of guitar and I really got a lot out of really studying arpeggios. After in depth study it has really allowed me to move around the neck very freely. I would like to do the same for upright but I am afraid to jump into it since it seems like fingering plays such a bigger role. On guitar I don't really think about the fingering because I don't have to worry about intonation. ie I would play an arpeggio starting from the 5th the same low on the neck as an octave higher on guitar. But on bass, this doesn't translate the same way.

So to get to the point, does anyone have suggestions for things to keep in mind as I begin mapping out arpeggios. Or do you have suggestions for books that will do it for me. Also, I mostly try to practice with a bow for the added benefits. So any suggestions about exercises with varying the bowings in relation to arpeggios would be appreciated as well.

Or do y'all feel like with enough practice it should get to a point where the fingerings don't really matter?
 
#6
So would you say that there are details in the fingerings in the book that would escape ones own investigation into arpeggios? I guess my original question was if you though that one could come up with decent fingering conventions for arpeggios on their own by following a few rules of thumb, and if so, what those rules are. Or if it is best to stick with a tried and true approach.
 
#7
There are tried-and-true approaches. There's going at it your own way.

But when it comes down to it, it's like this: real music is not made of either scales or arpeggios, except in part, and fingering is about making the music flow. Fingering depends not just on the notes, but also the articulation and rhythm, since you get a variable amount of time to get from one note to the next. So, since you have to work with whatever you're given in a score, the best is to figure out your own way. If you do that, you're practicing the skill of working out how to finger a passage.
 
#8
I think there is major difference between classical and jazz. In classical you can think of the fingering as long as you want and try different solutions. But in improvised jazz walking bass or solo you have to decide on the spot what fingering you use. There is no time for trial here. Therefore it is good to know these fingerings already so you can always fall back on them. It doesn't have to be the 'right' fingering all the time as long as the music keeps flowing.
 
#9
Les Fret said:
I think there is major difference between classical and jazz. In classical you can think of the fingering as long as you want and try different solutions. But in improvised jazz walking bass or solo you have to decide on the spot what fingering you use. There is no time for trial here. Therefore it is good to know these fingerings already so you can always fall back on them. It doesn't have to be the 'right' fingering all the time as long as the music keeps flowing.
Click to expand...

truth with modification. Avista reading comes to mind.
 
#10
Les Fret said:
I think there is major difference between classical and jazz. In classical you can think of the fingering as long as you want and try different solutions. But in improvised jazz walking bass or solo you have to decide on the spot what fingering you use. There is no time for trial here. Therefore it is good to know these fingerings already so you can always fall back on them. It doesn't have to be the 'right' fingering all the time as long as the music keeps flowing.
Click to expand...

Well put. I think of techniques that should be available to a player to solve musical problems as the standard 1,2,4 (I call 'closed hand'), 1,2,3,4 ('open hand') and, on some passages, even using the thumb below the octave (rarely used but can be a real help in cleaning up a nasty passage).
Tom Gale
 
#12
engedi1 said:
Tom, do you endorse an open hand technique, and if so in what positions? I have pretty small hands and couldn't imagine using all 4 fingers anywhere lower then the simandle 6th position (1st finger on d) I guess I have a technique that is half simandle and half rabbath with some petracchi thrown in for good measure
Click to expand...

I suggest a player tries the open hand tech where it is physically comfortable. Most players find 1st finger on D (G string) and above to be practical. BUT - the player just can't start using it without prep. The 3rd and 4th fingers working independently will be weak at first. First building strength and then comes the tech.
TG
 
#14
Les Fret said:
I think there is major difference between classical and jazz. In classical you can think of the fingering as long as you want and try different solutions. But in improvised jazz walking bass or solo you have to decide on the spot what fingering you use. There is no time for trial here. Therefore it is good to know these fingerings already so you can always fall back on them. It doesn't have to be the 'right' fingering all the time as long as the music keeps flowing.
Click to expand...

Certainly true of classical solo work. But in the orchestra, you almost never get the time to work out a fingering for everything. It ends up pretty much being straight from score to fingers. So I think having the skill of making up fingerings on the fly is useful in all playing. My point was, to practice that skill, you have to start somewhere, and it may as well be arpeggios (which are trivial to read) as anything.
 
#17
Les Fret said:
I think there is major difference between classical and jazz. In classical you can think of the fingering as long as you want and try different solutions. But in improvised jazz walking bass or solo you have to decide on the spot what fingering you use. There is no time for trial here. Therefore it is good to know these fingerings already so you can always fall back on them. It doesn't have to be the 'right' fingering all the time as long as the music keeps flowing.
Click to expand...

My main interest is in jazz. At the moment I am studying with a classical teacher and trying to use the bow with everything, so that was why I ended up posting in the orchestral technique section. I think I will try to get my hands on that book, and if not, just try to take it conscientiously on my own. Thanks for all the info.
 
#18
With whatever music you play to build dexterity, your arpegios should look like this:1,3,5,7,8,10,12,14,15. So like this from C: C,E,G,B,C',E',G',B',C". If its not what your looking for let me know on the forum or PM
 
#19
I pulled the Dr Morton’s Arpeggio book today. There are things that have always perplexed me with the fingerings. For example, on the multi-octave E major arpeggio it has the thumb landing on the last B (middle of treble clef) and then the 2nd finger on the E natural before descending. With a diatonic hand shape one could use the 4th finger and avoid the shift to play the E as the diatonic yields a perfect 4th interval. Why use the 2nd finger and introduce a shift?
 
#20
I don't have the book handy, but from what it sounds like, you are supposed to widen the distance between your thumb and other fingers and let the other four fingers fan out and stretch. The high E would be right there on the 2nd finger (or the 3rd finger depending on your hand size and shape).

As for 4th finger in thumb position, I'm not sure what the advantage would be over 2nd or 3rd finger, other than for racking up pioneer points.
 
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