Double Bass Sul ponticello

[Andy Mopley]

now here's one "technique" I haven't been diligent with. In the particular piece I am looking at, and I am sure most of you are familiar with, En Saga by Sibelius, the part is played in unison with other strings.

The speed and the volume at which it is played, by my modest standards, requires a great deal of dexterity, presumably with the tip of the bow and the wrist doing a lof of the work?

What are some of the other watch-outs when dealing with pieces with sul ponticello notation?

I can already hear Neil telling me to go practice Sevcik ...

Regards to all

 

[Co.]

Are talking about that sul ponticello with tremolo at pianissimo passage?
I think the trick is to relax. Just lay the bow on the string, close to the tip, 1-1,5" from the bridge and start shaking, not pressing into the string at all. This should give you the sound, you are looking for. You just have to control the speed.
Watchouts: Don't let the bow travel away from the bridge. Keep the position.
And really listen to the sound of the other strings. The degree of ponticello can vary drastically from piece to piece. Some pieces, especially in contemporary music, require a screaming ponticello with nothing but the highest overtones, some pieces require something, that is much closer to a flautando bowing, without any harshness. It also depends a lot on your conductors taste.

 

[tha believer]

I never played the piece, but just checked the score on IMSLP. If you're talking about the end of page 5, those are 8ths and not tremolo!!!! It starts with 8ths inside a quarter triplet, then 1+1/2 bar of 8ths in "straight" quarters and the rest is again 8ths in triplet quarters. So, two strokes per written note.! Well, maybe the Allegro makes it sound like a tremolo in the end....!!!!

Co. has given good pointers about sound (listen!! always listen!!!), and technically: lay the bow on the string and try to relax!!!! You could say this about maybe 90% of our bow strokes in orchestra!!!!
But for control purposes, I woudn't do it on the tip, but in a place where you can really play those subdivisions.

This is just my .02, I never played the piece, so maybe I'm completely off on this one!!!!

 

[David Potts]

The part should be marked "trem." or tremolo when required. Finlandia is another case where it is not clear but usual practice at rehearsal letter L for the basses to use tremolo even though written in 16ths. At the next letter M the tempo changes and the basses do play measured 16ths.

Tremolo is a musical effect using very short fast bow movements and when done ponticello is usually a spooky soft sound without much or any fundamental. Yes to all the above advice. Being a French bow user I rest the bow near the tip on the strings and flap my wrist vertically. This is faster and more relaxed than diagonally sideways and produces enough sideways movement of the hair to create the effect. A German bow uses the same wrist flap turned through 90 degrees.

The thing with tremolo is that the notes are deliberately not rythmically measured but a shimmering effect. Two or more players not moving identically gives even more complexity. In Finlandia the tremolo passage is also a melody so the beginning of each note is given a small stress to bring out the pitch.

I move closer to the middle of the stick for louder tremolo and change the action to normal bow hold, stiffer wrist and very rapid bounce between biceps and triceps to move the bow faster than I can move my wrist and fingers diagonally. Very loud tremolo is more visually pleasing to the conductor and audience than producing notes of pitch and quality and often follows a heavily accented attack for dramatic effect. If you want pitch then slow the speed down with slightly longer movements and rely on the random different speeds of each player in the section to create the effect.

 

[Anton Avis]

now here's one "technique" I haven't been diligent with. In the particular piece I am looking at, and I am sure most of you are familiar with, En Saga by Sibelius, the part is played in unison with other strings.

The speed and the volume at which it is played, by my modest standards, requires a great deal of dexterity, presumably with the tip of the bow and the wrist doing a lof of the work?

What are some of the other watch-outs when dealing with pieces with sul ponticello notation?

I can already hear Neil telling me to go practice Sevcik ...

Regards to all

When playing sul pont de cello it's normally a tremolo. There are exceptions i'm sure but i haven't come across them. It's all in the wrist. You need to relax your wrist. It'll feel weird at first but with practice it'll get easier. For extended passages of tremolo you have to relax your shoulder. If you tense your shoulder playing gets really tough.

 

[PaulCannon]

When playing sul pont de cello it's normally a tremolo. There are exceptions i'm sure but i haven't come across them..

There are many, many pieces using ponticello without tremolo. Controlling a ponticello tremolo is relatively easy, while holding long tones with a consistent sound is exceedingly difficult.

 

[bengreen]

"Very loud tremolo is more visually pleasing to the conductor and audience than producing notes of pitch and quality and often follows a heavily accented attack for dramatic effect. If you want pitch then slow the speed down with slightly longer movements and rely on the random different speeds of each player in the section to create the effect."

Totally agree. Wish more conductors would simply ask for what they want it to sound like rather than micromanaging us like we were just big violins.