Double Bass summer festival mics

[labravajazz]

Having paid some dues on stages with all kinds of sound systems all around the world for 30 years I can say with 100% certainty that giving a sound man a DI or any signal emanating from a pickup is way more dangerous than giving him a microphone on the bass.
Even if you can get a good sound from your amp chances are they will screw up the sound from a pickup every time. Beware when they say "trust me" ! You want to sound like a bass - use a mike just like every other instrument. Ever hear a sax or piano DI from a pickup?!
If the amp sound is your preference over acoustic, have them mic your speaker. If you prefer the acoustic sound mic the bass itself and just use the amp as monitor if necessary but NEVER let them plug in a line from the amp or DI unless you are very certain they are to be trusted! Even then I would be reticent.....
If you don't need an amp at all the best ploy is to have no pickup at all then they have no choice but learn how to use a mic ...... I am at the point where at the first sign of a DI or such i say "don't even think about it ..." and if it comes to a showdown I threaten to walk. I noticed by the way better sound operators want to use amic - more common in good venues especially in Japan and Europe. Mic choices - EV RE20 is hard to beat - also Audio Technica AM 25 or 35 are good and inexpensive choices. Or AMT at a higher price for clip on.

 

[Marc Piane]

Thanks for chiming in David. What got me thinking about this is exactly what you are talking about. For the past 10 years I have been giving the sound man a feed off of a pickup and 90% of the time it is a disaster. Like I said before, I hate having to rig my bass up with all kinds of dampers to keep the bass from feeding back. Your post confirms my thought that the simplicity of a mic will cut down on the sound man's ability to $^%& up my sound. Also, thanks for the mic suggestions. I'll see if I can get my hands on some of those.

Peter, I have a pile of mics to try here. I will also include a pickup through a preamp in my samples. Remember we are not dealing with mics designed for the recording studio here necessarily. Some of those mics are not usable in live situations. The SM58 was the first one I tried because every sound man has one. More to come.

 

[Marc Piane]

Link Removed is a link to the beginnings of my test.

I posted a few more. Akg C1000s and the K&K Golden Bullet. The performances suck but you get a sense of the mics.

 

[charmicarmicat]

I posted a few more. Akg C1000s and the K&K Golden Bullet. The performances suck but you get a sense of the mics.

Very cool. Thanks for posting that!

 

[Uncletoad]

I think I like the 58 on a stand the best of that bunch. Brings out the richness of the bass.

If you aren't playing so loud on stage where bleed is a factor that seems like the easiest thing.

I think the Beta57 has a tad more reveal to it. It's still cheap. I'd try that.

I have an AKG D112 and a D12 that I've tried on my bass. I thought they both sucked. To much boom. Made the low end sound weird. I haven't tried a Beta 52 yet. Might be a good middle ground.

I think the AMT is a PITA and overrated.

 

[Marc Piane]

Very cool. Thanks for posting that!

You're welcome. This is mainly a project I am doing for my own edification but if others are benefiting (and can forgive the sloppy playing, I'm just burning through these to get a sense of the mics) I'll keep posting.

I have a few more to try. My friend borrowed my Beta 52 and I am supposed to get it back today. Stay tuned.

 

[larry]

You want to sound like a bass - use a mike just like every other instrument. Ever hear a sax or piano DI from a pickup?!

Lol. Next time the sound man wants a D.I., ask him if he's going to mic the singer by shoving a mic up against her neck.

 

[Peck_Time]

Ever hear a sax or piano DI from a pickup?!

It's been tried and discarded on sax. The Selmer Varitone was a pickup installed at the factory in some Selmer saxophones during the 60s and 70s. Made famous by Eddie Harris and Lou Donaldson, it enabled usage of octavers and wah-wahs.

 

[bdowd]

Thanks for posting those clips. I think the 58 sound's pretty workable for a live thing. I do a lot of summer festivals, bluegrass and jazz, bluegrass they usually want to shove the 57 or 58 behind the tailpiece, and go direct for jazz gigs. However, the behind the tailpiece thing doesn't do it for me, nor does only going direct. From your recordings I like both the c1000 and the 58 on the stand, they both have potential, but the 58 sounds a little more organic to me. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Also keep in mind that there's a difference between "behind the tailpiece" and pointed at the table. When the mic is behind the tailpiece, the sound is more off-axis and diffuse. It still has potential and sounds nice at times (although I prefer the stand mounted mics so far), but I don't know if I'd call it the best option. I'd still like to hear Phil's flat faced mic sometime; it seems like the perfect solution.

Nice work on the clips - I know that always takes longer than intended!

 

[Uncletoad]

I'd still like to hear Phil's flat faced mic sometime; it seems like the perfect solution.

Nice work on the clips - I know that always takes longer than intended!

I'll try to get to that. I got absolutely no recording gear at all.

And no skill...

Go figure...

 

[Marc Piane]

Cool. Chris is right on about the way the mic is mounted. The 58 is extremely directional and has a very tight pattern. That's what makes it such a great live mic. You can have the loudest drummer in the world on stage and it won't bleed into the vocal mic 15' away.

My goal is to not do any special mounting. I'm trying to recreate a live situation where I show up and have a limited amount of time to either mount or put a mic on a stand. I'd rather not have something mounted on the bass. Keeping with my 'less is more' or 'easy button' goal right now I want everything to be the least effort possible. Of course if it is at the expense of tone I'll change my mind but I have a couple months to play with it.

My friend return my Beta 52 last night (after my gig at midnight). I'll mess with it today.

 

[bdowd]

I'd still like to hear Phil's flat faced mic sometime; it seems like the perfect solution.


+1 on that. I have a ply cleveland like Phil that I'm trying to find the right mic combo for and the sennheiser intrigues me, and I like the way it can directly face the table when banded up between the bridge legs.

 

[flatback]

I just ordered the Sennheiser 906e (the flat faced mic) I;ll report on it too. Seems like it will be really good. I went thru the 5m58, 57 and the cheapest Beyervocal (from about 20 years ago( and the Beyer has my vote.
Also Some of us are mounting the mic up under the fingerboard. It is way the killer sound (on my axe) The other spots below all seem to emphasize one or another part of the sound spectrum (generally the low mids) too much.

 

[Marc Piane]

I posted my Link Removed

I tried to do the Beta 52 today but the craptastic Behringer mixer I have in my teaching studio has really noisy mic pres. The mic sounded nice but I couldn't stand the noise. I'll post some when I can use my Mackie at home. M-->

 

[darksail]

Very interesting thread (thanks for the clips!)

I had some live experiences with these mics, that I report:

golden bullet --> unusable if alone

Beta 58A in front of the bridge --> great sound! but unusable (feedback)

sm 57 in front of the bridge--> acceptable sound but not too focused

sennheiser e835 --> unusable

Akg c419 (clip on) --> quite unusable (...)

Akg c411 --> not well balanced, and not real as a mic should be...

I'm still looking for a good one.
EV RE20 seems the best, but it's expansive.
I'm very interested to hear some "Kick drums" mics, as Beta 52 or D112 in action, 'cause they should be feedback resistant...

A question:
Where do you place the monitor when you're using only the mic?

Thanks in advance

 

[Marc Piane]

I just posted the Link Removed. Scroll all the way down. The only thing I found with the Beta 52 is that is has a very tight pattern. Just a inch can effect the amount of stuff it is getting form your bass. Good for feedback rejection but bad if you move around like I do. I might try mounting it to the back of my string afterlengths or something. We'll see. I'm reserving judgement though I have a favorite thus far.

 

[larry]

I'm still looking for a good one.
EV RE20 seems the best, but it's expansive.
I'm very interested to hear some "Kick drums" mics, as Beta 52 or D112 in action, 'cause they should be feedback resistant...

I've used a lot of mics. I was not impressed by the D112. I do still own an RE20. Great mic, in terms of not getting boomy and it records the bass well if you're recording a live performance. If you are spending the cash for an RE20, you must take a look at the Beyer M88. It is a killer mic for DB, IMO. Search for some reviews (especially on recording forums), you'll see some big fans of that mic.

 

[Monte]

Anyone tried the Blue Kickball? Seems interesting, although I'm not sure how it would mount with the ExplorAUDIO H Clamp.

On the Senn 906e, I'm a little concerned it would be thin bodied with freq response only down to 40. Any opinions to the contrary?

 

[larry]

Anyone tried the Blue Kickball? Seems interesting, although I'm not sure how it would mount with the ExplorAUDIO H Clamp.

On the Senn 906e, I'm a little concerned it would be thin bodied with freq response only down to 40. Any opinions to the contrary?

The fundamental frequency of your low E string is 41. What matters more is where it begins to roll off. The 906e begins rolling off at around 150hz. It gets more complicated because the mic is cardiod, so low end reponse will rise as it gets closer to the source (proximity effect). Different mics can have varying degrees of proximity effect too. Bottom line, you gotta read reviews and try some favorites. See what works for you.

That probably doesn't help...