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Sunn 215SH driver replacement

ejt

ejt

Feb 29, 2012
70
27
Pleasant Garden, IN
www.erlotom.com
#1
I'm looking to replace the drivers in my bass rig and was hoping to get some advice from the very knowledgeable people on TalkBass. I'm running a biamped setup with a Yamaha PB-1 preamp feeding a new Crown XLS1000 stereo amp, a Sunn 212LH cab for highs and a Sunn 215SH for lows. The 215SH is what I'd like to change first. It's got two 15" 8 ohm Sunn 158B transducers in it, rated for only 160 watts at 4 ohms in parallel, so I need to get something that can handle the 350-550 watts of the Crown because I know that I'll eventually fry the 158s when I turn the volume up to eleven. I believe the 215SH classifies as a folded horn design (reverse?) with an individual sealed box for each driver. The boxes have a triangular shape with one curved sidewall, and by doing the measuring and calculations the best I can I figured that the volume for each box is approximately 1.64 cubic feet. I've seen that a number of different 15's are acceptable for sealed boxes in that size range. Some of the options I've been thinking of are neodymium magnets, 4 ohm drivers for a 2 ohm cabinet and doing some sort of fiber fill and/or acoustical lining inside the cabinets if that will help. Definitely in the works is rewiring with 12 gauge speaker cable and possibly a Speakon jack. I've heard people recommend old JBL 130/140s or EVs for this cab but I'd rather buy something brand new. Right now from the little research I've done I'm leaning towards the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] but haven't totally made my mind up yet. These are in the $200 apiece range which is right in my budget; I would be willing to go somewhat higher if necessary. I'm not looking for the "classic 70's sound," or worried about full-frequency response out of this cab because the 212 cabinet handles the upper end very nicely. I go for a "Tool" kind of sound with big lows and hear-the-pick-scratch highs. Right now the 215SH is pretty thunderous and I'm sure that upgrading to modern transducers can make it sound even better, if I do it right. I also know that I'm not going to create some kind of new uber-cabinet out of this old piece of gear, but if I can make some small improvements by tweaking a few things while it's opened up then I think it's worth it. I've been studying up on my Qts and Vas and Xmax but I'm definitely not an expert, so that's why I'm asking for some help. Thanks very much in advance for your thoughts.

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#2
A little off topic, but if you add a Sunn 1-18vh under your 2x15sh, with your 2x12 lh..you would have it all.

I have owned a used 1-18vh [ 4-0hms @300 watts R M S]...since late 1979. It's heavy and I am to old to heft it, as well as not playing out much any more. Better serves me now as a lamp table...LOL.. Regardless. I WON'T SELL IT.

I use..used mine with Acoustic 370. It has deepest, clearest lows with no loss in highs; even up to high D#.

Advantage of Sunn 1-18vh over Acoustic 301 is that with a W-Horn , sound is thrown so deeply off stage that you can't hear it on stage. Both are folded horns, but designed differently.

Imagine your 2x15sh in seperate 1x15 cabs; now imagine one of those cabs is an 18..That's what the 1-18vh looks like, to me.

I would love to see pics and sound of your rig when completed.
 
#4
no reason the C2515s won't work in a sealed cab of that volume. I'd also look at the non-neo Emi CB158, those'll work in there as well and cost half of the C2515s.

Another choice might be the Faital 15PR400s, they're neo's, run around 200 and change each and are considered a good near-substitute for the D/K140s as they're low Q drivers, which means they'll take tight spaces well. I've not run them on WinISD but they get a lot of love here for their sound and seem to be able to get put into smaller boxes.

Definitely line the driver box interior. Also make sure it's well sealed and add a little bracing in there, esp the back panel. You'll be generating more noise in there so it'll shake things more.
 
#5
Thanks, I'll definitely check out the Faitals. As far as bracing, would you recommend something running across the open interior space from one wall to another? There's the removable panel, and the curved wall has 2x2 ribs right now. I will be sealing it better too, new gasket material and a little caulking. It's not too bad right now though. Thanks again for the advice.
 
#7
ejt said:
As far as bracing, would you recommend something running across the open interior space from one wall to another? There's the removable panel, and the curved wall has 2x2 ribs right now. I will be sealing it better too, new gasket material and a little caulking. It's not too bad right now though. Thanks again for the advice.
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I don't see how you could run a brace across those walls, looks pretty tight in there. I'd just add some ribs to the removable panel.

And make sure the gasket material is fresh for both the driver mounting as well as that removable panel.

All potential holes should be sealed up per Mr Foxen's suggestion. Wasn't aware those drivers were collectible, not a bad way to offset some of your expenses.

Going with 12 gauge wire is a bit overkill, but if you have it and it fits the speaker connectors it certainly won't hurt. Speakons are definitely the way to go w/that kind of power, a wise choice.

I'm sure that's one heavy cab but they do sound good, enjoy :cool:
 
#8
I'm actually thinking of making some PA cabs with the Sunn drivers. As far as that little hole, when I originally got the cabinets from my buddy they were powered by a Sunn Concert Bass head. He was worried that the impedance was too low for the Concert with both cabs together, so he put a DPDT switch on both of them to run the drivers in series or parallel to solve that problem. The Concert head was stolen from me in the 80's and replaced with the PB-1 preamp and my current biamp setup, and I'm finally getting around to removing the switches from both cabinets when I rewire them. The switches are actually going into my floor monitors so I can run them in or out of phase. I was wondering if anyone would spot that little thang under the badge. Good eye!

I'm going to go with 12 gauge cable because I'm running LiveWires 12 gauge from the Crown to the cabinets, so I don't want to go smaller than that when I rewire. Yes, heavy and yes, sounds great!
 
#9
ejt said:
I'm actually thinking of making some PA cabs with the Sunn drivers.
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not a bad idea :smug:

A 6" or 8" mid and a decent horn and you'd be set. I wouldn't go w/a 2 way design if you're using a 15. Just my 0.02.

Edit: I'd also be careful about how much power you'd put into them. Go w/a small sealed box like they're currently in and keep them above 80-100 Hz, using a biamped sub below that.
 
#10
I'm not too good with horn stuff. Looks like a sealed chamber with a horn on the front wave. Might be long enoigh to load into the lowmids...upper bass maybe??

Anyway, yeah. The Legend will work in a sealed chamber, just won't handle quite as much power as in a ported box. If you're biamping and don't need the highs, check out the Definimax 4015LF for the ultimate in sealed cab lowend punishment.
 
#11
will33 said:
I'm not too good with horn stuff. Looks like a sealed chamber with a horn on the front wave. Might be long enoigh to load into the lowmids...upper bass maybe??

Anyway, yeah. The Legend will work in a sealed chamber, just won't handle quite as much power as in a ported box. If you're biamping and don't need the highs, check out the Definimax 4015LF for the ultimate in sealed cab lowend punishment.
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probably not much above 500Hz from the looks of it.

Forgot about the 4015LF, that's a great sounding beast, weighs around 25 lbs apiece, though :eek:
 
#12
dhsierra1 said:
probably not much above 500Hz from the looks of it.

Forgot about the 4015LF, that's a great sounding beast, weighs around 25 lbs apiece, though :eek:
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I want to use them in a Bonecrusher of a sealed 215 + guitar driver mid cab for my Classic400 whenever I get that thing up and running.....

So overkill for anything I do though I can't justify the expense.

It could handle a 400 watt non-master volume tube amp being dimed all night long though.:eek::cool:
 
#13
will33 said:
I want to use them in a Bonecrusher of a sealed 215 + guitar driver mid cab for my Classic400 whenever I get that thing up and running.....

So overkill for anything I do though I can't justify the expense.

It could handle a 400 watt non-master volume tube amp being dimed all night long though.:eek::cool:
Click to expand...

I see you've internalized "Home Improvement"'s mantra :D

How would you ever transport such a rig, anyway? :eek:
 

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