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Sunn 300T vs Ampeg SVT-CL?
- Thread starter reecebors89
- Start date
- Feb 16, 2008
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- John K Custom Basses
Pre-Fender Sunn bass amps. Was there a sort of "Sunn sound" the way people frequently refer to "The Ampeg sound"? And how did that differ from the Fender era Sunn amps?
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
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- John K Custom Basses
IMO, you can't compare the 300T at all to the hand wired vintage Sunn tube amps. they're completely differnet animals, and don't sound anything like them. and the solid state coliseums are another beast altogether.
personally, i would compare the 300T more to a mesa than i would a sunn.
personally, i would compare the 300T more to a mesa than i would a sunn.
Was there some old Sunn head that they made their own with features like the graphic eq and compressor? Or was it a head that the real Sunn never got to release?
- Feb 16, 2008
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the only older sunn heads that had a compressor that i'm aware of was the Coliseum 300 and it was solid state. and none of the old Sunns that i've ever owned or seen had graphic eqs.
Oh I see. I was thinking that the solid state Sunns would be quite different, but I was mainly inquiring about differences between the 300T's sound and the previous tube Sunns.
The 300T sounds more like a Mesa? Does it have the Fender tone stack with the weird flat being lows-2, mids-10, highs-2? I know my mesa has that setup. I find it rather bizarre.
That and the band. Who themselves owe much of their popularity to the internet.
is it possible to both +1 and -1?
because i think there's some truth to that, but i also think old sunn tube amps from the 60's and 70's are pretty cool.is it possible to both +1 and -1?
Oh, they're awesome heads, no doubt, but the demand for them has skyrocketed unreasonably in the last few years, something I attribute to current trend towards using vintage gear, as well as all the guys who, as teenagers, wore the grooves out on albums like Live At Leeds...
- Feb 16, 2008
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personally, i don't think that the prices of the vintage tube Sunns (i.e 190B/200S/2000S) are out of line at all, when you consider that they're a hand built, point to point 100% USA amplifier. when maintained and serviced properly, they will last forever, and IMO, sound as good or better than any bass amp ever offered, both then and now. IMO, they are not 'old school' sounding at all, but rather 'hi-fi', since they are actually dynaco hi-fi tube circuits, and their frequency response is VERY wide, smooth and punchy. and if you've ever had a chance to play thru one that is running properly, thru a nice sounding cab, i'm certain that most bass players would agree.
I'd say it has much more to do with the "discovery" of doom-y music by the masses, as it were.
Its easy music to play (especially if you're not doing anything new with it), and the only real prerequisite is being as loud as humanly possible... and, when that style was being pioneered, old tube amps were a dime a dozen. There's a reason Fender discontinued their 90's Sunn line-it didn't sell!
Same with Sovtek... check this out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sovtek-Mig-60-T...aultDomain_0?hash=item3efe596c04#ht_500wt_924
That head had a suggested retail price of $430
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I agree to an extent. I think it depends on your geography as well. Here in the MD area, Doom has been thriving for evs, not just with the resurgance in the past 3 or 4 years. That said, ALL the doomy bands that have been alive and well here for years have all been Sunn afficianados. So, it's been a 'hip amp' for as long as i can remember.
I also agree with the placebo effect going on as well. But i don't really see it as a 'bad' thing. The sunn aesthetic is very appealing, both for myself and to most of the musicians i know. Even to the point where they would pay more $ for a less powerfull sunn amp over a newer, more powerfull, model just because of the Sunn name.
In any case, regardless of maker, i do dig the tone of the Sunn 300t over the Ampeg CL. But it's another apples/oranges debate.
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Vintage tube Sunn's have increased in price over the last few years, but I agree with John, they aren't out of line at all, IMO they are actually still a bargain for what they are.
I also agree about his "Hi-Fi" performance analysis, and "maintained and serviced properly" is a huge part of that big, open Hi-Fi response.
I think many players buy old Sunns for the mystique and legendary stories and are disapointed in the power or fidelity. Not because the amps are flawed, but because they are playing 40+ yr. old filter caps, drifted resistors, filthy pots, worn out tubes, caps, etc.
I think the popularity of Sunn with doom aficionados is that for a long time these orphaned and neglected Sunns were dirt cheap and loud, perfect for low revenue genres like "doom", or "drone"; coupled with the fact that it seems the nasty "unmaintained amp" flaws seem actually desirable in those genres.
Lets be realistic; It's not like features such as articulation or "Hi-Fi" response (or as far as I can tell actual playing ability
) really factor into a doom performers repertoire. IMO, a "healthy" Dynaco based Sunn with a proper cab sounds so good you can almost taste it, but its a little more involved than going to GC and buying a new amp off the shelf.
Portland's had a pretty ace Doom scene for the last decade-and-a-half too, but we've never been nearly as hung up about the gear--Probably 'cause we're far enough off the beaten path that a lot of that older gear never made it up.
IIRC, the guy who designed the 300T was actually the same dude who designed the SVT.
- Feb 16, 2008
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really? i find that pretty hard to believe since the 300T has zillions of resistors, caps & IC's in it and its signal path is anything but pure. to me, they sound a bit more like what one would think a SS amp would sound like. i'm not saying that they don't sound like a tube amp, they do, but IME, are way cleaner and more neutral (& almost sterile & brittle sounding) as compared to most vintage tube heads. i also found them to be cleaner at quite a bit louder playing levels than an SVT-CL or VR.
just my opinion, having played thru all three amps.
I remember reading that Bill Hughes designed it, but doing some quick googling doesn't bring up anything other than a couple of similar posts.
EDIT: this is a bit more legit--
http://books.google.com/books?id=N_...6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q="Bill Hughes" Sunn&f=false
Vintage tube Sunn's have increased in price over the last few years, but I agree with John, they aren't out of line at all, IMO they are actually still a bargain for what they are.
I also agree about his "Hi-Fi" performance analysis, and "maintained and serviced properly" is a huge part of that big, open Hi-Fi response.
I think many players buy old Sunns for the mystique and legendary stories and are disapointed in the power or fidelity. Not because the amps are flawed, but because they are playing 40+ yr. old filter caps, drifted resistors, filthy pots, worn out tubes, caps, etc.
I think the popularity of Sunn with doom aficionados is that for a long time these orphaned and neglected Sunns were dirt cheap and loud, perfect for low revenue genres like "doom", or "drone"; coupled with the fact that it seems the nasty "unmaintained amp" flaws seem actually desirable in those genres.
Lets be realistic; It's not like features such as articulation or "Hi-Fi" response (or as far as I can tell actual playing ability
IMO, a "healthy" Dynaco based Sunn with a proper cab sounds so good you can almost taste it, but its a little more involved than going to GC and buying a new amp off the shelf.
I'd disagree about playing ability. Everybody in Shrinebuilder, for instance, including Wino, who plays Sunns, can really play very well.
See this is what I remember hearing too. The story I heard was that he designed it and when he brought it to Ampeg they told him that there was no need for a bass amp with a "dirty" channel.
I also "heard" that the 300T was around in the late 60's early 70's. Apparently JPJ used one on Led Zeppelin II's Heart Breaker.
That being said. I can not remember where I heard such information. Also searching the web has not helped me find who designed it and when it originally came out. All I can find are catalog scans that after looking at them again do not look like they were from back then.
So I am slowly coming to grips that this amp I love so much does not have the history that I thought. Its alright. The "dirty" channel makes up for it big time.
