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Sunn 300T vs Ampeg SVT-CL?

#41
IMO, there's no way that the current version of the 300T (or Bassman 300) was around in the 60 or 70's, and that's easily apparent if you look inside of one.

Sunn may have had some version of a '300T' on the designing board years ago, but it would've probably been more like a Model T with 6 6550A's. that said, even the Fender/Sunn Model T, while still a good amp, isn't the same amp as the 70's Sunn Model T.
 
#42
Well the fact that I can not re-find said information makes me a little sad. But, I like my 300 Pro a lot. All 75lbs of it. At times I do feel it is a bit much for the kind of music I am playing. So I might be hunting for a nice 200s or 2000s one of these days.
 
#45
bill hughes was the guy's name, btw. he and roger cox designed the svt, and later bill went to fender, and i believe bass gear mag said he's now retired. and yeah, the sunn 300t was definitely not around in the 70's.
 
#50
Sartori said:
I like Sunn O))) a bit. Not my fave, as they're a bit slow even for me, but I like listening to a song or two from them now and then.

Also, since when did easy to play = bad? Lots of good music isn't all that hard to play.
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but most of it sounds like music. sunn-o's goal seems to be just making people puke.

btw, isn't it curious that fender hasn't sued sunn-o for ripping off the sunn logo?
 
#51
JimmyM said:
but most of it sounds like music. sunn-o's goal seems to be just making people puke.

btw, isn't it curious that fender hasn't sued sunn-o for ripping off the sunn logo?
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Their music sounds like music to me. "Hunting and Gathering" has a great main riff. Dude, don't be like tons of people and try to give some moral justification for not liking how music sounds. Just say you don't like it and leave it at that. I don't like brussels sprouts but I don't say that they're not food. Just doesn't suit my tastes.

And while one would think that they might get sued, it's also kinda free advertising. It's not like they're robbing Fender of any sales or reflecting badly on Fender products, as Sunn amps aren't made anymore.
 
#52
well, i just got through 3 minutes of hunting and gathering. the bitcrushed stuff at the beginning was cool. out of respect for you, though, i won't tell you what i thought of it. let's just say that i did puke ;)
 
#54
I completely agree with the "Also, since when did easy to play = bad? Lots of good music isn't all that hard to play."

Case in point: Moss Icon

I like the feel of "depressive blackmetal" which is usually very simple and slow, as well as some funeral doom. I listen to tons of noise music as well and stuff that is much more stomach churning than Sunn-o. I feel that Sunn-o lacks character and is rather pretentious even just on an aural level. Sort of an inside joke that got larger through pure novelty rather than actual substance.

But, to each their own. Oh, and I am now WAYYYY off topic.

Sartori said:
I like Sunn O))) a bit. Not my fave, as they're a bit slow even for me, but I like listening to a song or two from them now and then.

Also, since when did easy to play = bad? Lots of good music isn't all that hard to play.
Click to expand...
 
#55
selfblessed said:
I also "heard" that the 300T was around in the late 60's early 70's. Apparently JPJ used one on Led Zeppelin II's Heart Breaker.
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I'm not claiming to be the "ultimate Sunn authority" or anything close to that, but I do have a fair amount of Sunn knowledge. It's my opinion that no such Sunn ever existed, the 300T is all Fender.

This picture is JPJ playing Sunns from that era, but as far as I can tell he's using a 200S and a 2000S amp with four 200S cabs.

zeppelin-greenlake.jpg



selfblessed said:
Well the fact that I can not re-find said information makes me a little sad. But, I like my 300 Pro a lot. All 75lbs of it. At times I do feel it is a bit much for the kind of music I am playing. So I might be hunting for a nice 200s or 2000s one of these days.
Click to expand...

I think the Fender/Sunn 300T is a nice ballsy tube amp, and honestly probably much more practical than the older Sunns for this day and age.
The 200S and 2000S are great amps, I've got a bunch of them. IMO very worthy of their legendary status.
BUT... they are like a Model T (the car, not the amp ;)) compared to a modern car as far as modern features. Basic, straight forward, brutally powerful and tremendously heavy(relative to their ratings and era) tone machines.
Period. No bells, no whistles, no frills.

It's a tradeoff, but IMO for most live gig situations your 300T makes more sense.
 
#56
you think, ed? i don't know...when i've played through an old sunn, i think instant entwistle, but when i've tried the 300t, i think fender. yeah, they're old and not as feature-laden, but i'd still rock it if i was into that sound because that's about the only place to get it.

btw, where the heck was that gig? must have been before they caught on ;)
 
#57
JimmyM said:
you think, ed? i don't know...when i've played through an old sunn, i think instant entwistle, but when i've tried the 300t, i think fender. yeah, they're old and not as feature-laden, but i'd still rock it if i was into that sound because that's about the only place to get it.
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I love my old Sunns, and rock them when I can. The issue is practical rather than tonal.
Jimmy, you are the last person that needs to be told how "big" a low wattage amp can sound live, but... ;)
I like a lot of stage volume. A 200S rig is great for smaller venues, the tone is sublime and the rig is very managable size wise.
The 200S is amazingly loud for 60 watts, however, it's still a little anemic by modern standards.
The 2000S with one 2000S cab is loud enough for just about any venue on earth; with two cabs it can literally blur your vision up close.
But, the average sized stage in the average sized venue seems to kind of fall in between the 200S and 2000S.
A 2000S rig on a small to medium stage is like an elephant balancing on a stool at the circus. It's awkward and looks funny.
I usually use a Reeves C225 and a 200S sized cab. It's portable (relatively speaking of course), has power for days, and sounds fantastic.
If I know the venue, and it's appropriate, I'll use one of my vintage Sunns almost every time, but like the 300T, the Reeves rig is far more flexible (and portable) in a much wider variety of conditions.

JimmyM said:
btw, where the heck was that gig? must have been before they caught on ;)
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That was my 10th birthday party at my family's Lake Tahoe summer house house. All of the people outside our compound were "townies" that heard the music and just kind of floated up to the fence.
My old man shorted them $75 at the end of the gig because they wouldn't play "Sugar, Sugar" for me... :smug:





Actually, it was a place called Greenlake Aquatheater in Seattle, 5-11-69.
 
#58
savinggrace said:
Sort of an inside joke that got larger through pure novelty rather than actual substance.
Click to expand...

As far as I'm concerned, there's an element of humor to Sunn's music that doesn't get nearly enough credit. Case in point:

:D

The 300T is definitely a Sunnder(like that?) creation, by the way. Bill Hughes didn't make the jump to Fender until long after the original Sunn ceased to exist.

EDIT:
Oh, and as far as the easy to play bit... I only brought that up because it seems like a lot of Doom bands (or whatever you want to call the variants of our beloved Slow/Fuzzy/Loud style music) have sprung up recently because there's a pretty established songwriting formula to follow (which doesn't take much in the way of virtuosity) , and all you need to be considered a "serious" doom band are a stack of haphazardly matched cabs and old tube heads running red hot. Its a genre that's gotten really, really stagnant over the last few years, IMO.
 
#59
selfblessed said:
See this is what I remember hearing too. The story I heard was that he designed it and when he brought it to Ampeg they told him that there was no need for a bass amp with a "dirty" channel.

I also "heard" that the 300T was around in the late 60's early 70's. Apparently JPJ used one on Led Zeppelin II's Heart Breaker.
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The 300T and 1200S were made by Fender for the brand relaunch in the 90s. From what I read years ago the original creator of the SVT designed the 300T. I can't seem to find that right now so it might have just been a rumor.
 
#60
protoz said:
The 300T and 1200S were made by Fender for the brand relaunch in the 90s.
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the original 1200S was actually a 4 x 6550 output 100% tube 'guitar' amp in its original Sunn form (very similar to the 2000S but with reverb etc). the later SS bass version is something that fender came up with years later, and has no resemblance to it other than its name.
 

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