Sunn bass gear?

[mykailmason13]

What would be the best Sunn rack combination for me to use for really progressive/metal/translucent/deep bass stuff. There's quite a few heads popping up for sale around here: Beta Bass, Concert, & Coliseum

And I've seen a lot of cabs come up: 215b, 610l, Beta 205, 4x10.

I like the idea of a 6x10 on a 2x15.

 

[creis2]

What would be the best Sunn rack combination for me to use for really progressive/metal/translucent/deep bass stuff. There's quite a few heads popping up for sale around here: Beta Bass, Concert, & Coliseum

And I've seen a lot of cabs come up: 215b, 610l, Beta 205, 4x10.

I like the idea of a 6x10 on a 2x15.

I never owned a Sunn amp, but I've seen their Coliseum heads sell for a pretty penny on eBay.

I did a mini-tour with a friend's band, where we shared rigs. I used a friend's GK 700rb into a Sunn 2x15b. It farted out at very low volumes. Not sure if it had stock speakers or what the deal was, I think the cabinet sounded terrible.

Be careful about power. Older cabs from the 70's can't handle anywhere near the power of today's cabinets.

I love vintage gear and I'm not trying to push you away. I just wanted to share my experience. Most importantly, try the cab out.

 

[nashvillebill]

I had a Sunn Concert bass rig (head plus 2x15 cab). Frankly I was not impressed. The amp itself was cheaply made, the speakers farted easily.

I was glad to sell it.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

Sunn stuff is not reknowned for its clean headroom or shimmering treble.
It's more in the Ampeg end of the spectrum. Pretty much always a little dirty, and sounding most excellent if you want it to get really dirty.
I have actually heard a few Sunn 2x15 cabs that sounded huge. Mostly the shelf ported TL606 style cabs. Though there are a few oddball ones that sunn made, such as the 4x15 cabinet and the diagonal baffled enclosures. The main problem with most of them isn't the cab (seriously they are built better than some houses) it's the speakers.

 

[CL400Peavey]

What would be the best Sunn rack combination for me to use for really progressive/metal/translucent/deep bass stuff. There's quite a few heads popping up for sale around here: Beta Bass, Concert, & Coliseum

And I've seen a lot of cabs come up: 215b, 610l, Beta 205, 4x10.

I like the idea of a 6x10 on a 2x15.

Why are you looking specifically for a Sunn amp? If there is something for sale local to you, why dont you check them out and see which meets your tonal goals best?

Also Paring a 610 and a 215 is not an optimum set up. I would be looking for an 810, 610, or 215 used, but not a combination of those cabs.

On of that bands that I play with does the progressive/metal/translucent/deep bass thing. IMHO this is the very best combination for the genre:

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Peavey Classic 400 and a fEARful 1515/66/1.

 

[mpdd]

i was more interested in sunn amps when you could by them for 125 bucks in the 90s, my 2000s was awesome, but not 2 grand awesome for me in my current financial situation, it weighed a million pounds, and it smelled funny like the ny bars did after they banned smoking

happy with my mesa d180

 

[vegedge]

just got a 200s sunday. its amazing.gritty and has a lot of attitude i use it with a 410hlf. hope to upgrade to a 610. use it for hardcore, mean punk

 

[SactoBass]

I had a Sunn Concert bass rig (head plus 2x15 cab). Frankly I was not impressed. The amp itself was cheaply made, the speakers farted easily.

I was glad to sell it.

I had the same rig back in the 70's. Very average IMO.

 

[mpdd]

the sunn and the gibson grabber were great for hardcore

 

[Calaverasgrande]

i was more interested in sunn amps when you could by them for 125 bucks in the 90s, my 2000s was awesome, but not 2 grand awesome for me in my current financial situation, it weighed a million pounds, and it smelled funny like the ny bars did after they banned smoking

happy with my mesa d180

Exactly. Sunn was great when you could buy a beta bass for $100 and nobody wanted those "weird, ugly" tube amps with the slanted fronts.
At collector prices I'd rather buy a Hiwatt or Superbass.

 

[D.M.N.]

I've never personally played a Concert, Beta, or Coliseum, but when I've heard them, I've been overall "Meh". Probably not what you want if you want "Deep Bass". However, the older tube models are fantastic amplifiers, if you want to get the "old-school" bass tone. For me, a Sunn 2000s into JBLs is pretty much it as far as the tone department goes. Sure, the prices have gone up, bummer, but i think you'd be hard pressed to find as nicely made (clean PTP wiring, hand made, yadda yadda) for what you can get the Sunns for (I got my 200s for less than $500 and 2000s for somewhere between $800 and $900). I guess collectors price is subjective, but I certainly haven't seen any 60s or 70s Hiwatts for sale recently in that price zone.

Either way, I think Sunn equipment is not going to do what you're looking for, OP. Maybe some newer SS stuff, or if you look at tube amps, that Peavey Classic 400 mentioned above or a Fender Bassman 300pro.

 

[vegedge]

I've never personally played a Concert, Beta, or Coliseum, but when I've heard them, I've been overall "Meh". Probably not what you want if you want "Deep Bass". However, the older tube models are fantastic amplifiers, if you want to get the "old-school" bass tone. For me, a Sunn 2000s into JBLs is pretty much it as far as the tone department goes. Sure, the prices have gone up, bummer, but i think you'd be hard pressed to find as nicely made (clean PTP wiring, hand made, yadda yadda) for what you can get the Sunns for (I got my 200s for less than $500 and 2000s for somewhere between $800 and $900). I guess collectors price is subjective, but I certainly haven't seen any 60s or 70s Hiwatts for sale recently in that price zone.

Either way, I think Sunn equipment is not going to do what you're looking for, OP. Maybe some newer SS stuff, or if you look at tube amps, that Peavey Classic 400 mentioned above or a Fender Bassman 300pro.

how early does your 200s break up? noticed mine gets crunchy real early. about noon.

 

[D.M.N.]

how early does your 200s break up? noticed mine gets crunchy real early. about noon.

I think it probably breaks up somewhere around 6? It starts getting really raunchy pretty quick after that, by around 8. I use it as a dorm rig, so I never crank it up too loud. Mine also has the valve rectifier, so it breaks up a little earlier than some of the later versions. The headroom really depends on the speaker and bass combo, into two 2000s cab, it can obviously be plenty loud without breaking up. Through an Ampeg B25 cab, it doesn't get nearly as loud before breakup.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

I owned a couple Sunn's in the 70's. Some of their designs I believe-- and someone will tell me if I'm wrong-- were suggested by John Entwistle of the Who. The "Ox" didn't want to hear his bass, he wanted to feel it in his bones. I remember a friend telling me he saw Entwistle's band in a nightclub in Ballard Washington, and the bass was so loud that the wall my friend was leaning against was vibrating. He stacked 215's with 410's in walls of 4 and sometimes more. Talk about thunder.

My point: The pre Fender stuff may be old, but it's super reliable, and back then, 100 or 200 watts was THAT. Not some marketed hype watts. People don't realize that 1000 watts was unheard of back then. The cabinets were deep and rich, and the 215's I owned were deep and loud.

Fender then took over the company, it's good at that, and absorbed it into its system. Same thing with SWR. Then they used all the best technologies of those companies, put them into a generic "Fender" design and eventually those fine bass amplifier companies faded into history. So sad.

If you get a chance to try out some Sunn gear, go give it a whirl. As you can tell here, some people didn't like the stuff maybe they couldn't get the sound they liked, but for me, the Sunn stuff (pre Fender) was monster gear.

Good luck!

 

[Calaverasgrande]

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[RNV]

Why are you looking specifically for a Sunn amp? If there is something for sale local to you, why dont you check them out and see which meets your tonal goals best?

Also Paring a 610 and a 215 is not an optimum set up. I would be looking for an 810, 610, or 215 used, but not a combination of those cabs.

On of that bands that I play with does the progressive/metal/translucent/deep bass thing. IMHO this is the very best combination for the genre:

Link Removed

Peavey Classic 400 and a fEARful 1515/66/1.

Here we go again! You gosh darn fEARful guys cramming your Gosh Darn fEARfuls down people's throats.

 

[Oren Hudson]

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Now that's some Rockin' music! Gear wise, a very popular combo of earlier times - Fender / Sunn. Actually, still true today.

Just like any vintage gear, most will need some attention in some way or the other for maximum performance. Remember, this gear is well over 30 years old or more.

If you want the wall shaking cab from SUNN there's none better than the MV118 folded horn design with a Cerwin Vega 300 watt 18" speaker. Truly amazing! Mine will grunt with Colosium head and the Acoustic 370 head extremely well. This cab is on the rare side to find, but, again, they are amazingly deep and loud for being a relatively small, by today's comparrison, wattage, IMO.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Here we go again! You gosh darn fEARful guys cramming your Gosh Darn fEARfuls down people's throats.

Hey now! You wouldnt know a good bass cabinet if it fell over on you in your own practice space!

But seriously to the OP. Both I and RNV use a 1515/66 and would recommend you check it out. Might not be your thing, but knowledge is never a bad thing.

 

[mccartneyman]

Sunn made the 115RH horn cab that killed in the late 70s, especially if you loaded it with a JBL K140 and drove two of them with an SVT head. Clarity and great low end. A bit cumbersome, but at the time it was very nice.

 

[edbass]

Sunn stuff is not reknowned for its clean headroom or shimmering treble.
It's more in the Ampeg end of the spectrum. Pretty much always a little dirty, and sounding most excellent if you want it to get really dirty.

That isn't my experience with Sunns at all.
I'm referring to the vintage tube amps as I don't care much for transistors in MI amplification, but in fact one of the reasons Sunn was less popular with guitarists in their peak years is that guitar was transitioning away from the 50's and 60's squeaky clean guitar tone and a more distorted dirty tone was becoming the preferred style, and Sunns were just too clean for most players.
Bass players still wanted the big clean headroom, so Sunn became more popular with the bottom feeders than with guitarists.

Of course any amp in need of maintenance will get distorted, as will almost any tube amp that's run wide open, but my healthy Sunns are far more Hiwattish than Ampegish.
Not quite as crisp and clean as a Reeves or Hiwatt, but certainly more defined and dynamic than an Ampeg, and tonally closer to the Dave Reeves circuits.

I have actually heard a few Sunn 2x15 cabs that sounded huge. Mostly the shelf ported TL606 style cabs. Though there are a few oddball ones that sunn made, such as the 4x15 cabinet and the diagonal baffled enclosures. The main problem with most of them isn't the cab (seriously they are built better than some houses) it's the speakers.

The original Sundholm era Sunn bass cabs, the 200S and 2000S, are huge sounding cabs.
The "oddball" cabs were Hartzell era designs, and the Hartzell era is also when Sunn cut back tube amp production dramatically and transitioned to almost all transistor amplifiers. In defense of Hartzell engineers, they were just trying to stay on the cutting edge, in the early 70's EVERYBODY was going solid state; not just the MI industry, the entire electronics universe.
For the vast majority of applications it’s infinitely better, and even more so more practical.
It took a decade or two for people to realize, and the MI industry to react to, the fact that tubes just sound more musical, and for tube MI amps to have a resurgence in popularity that they still enjoy today.
The Hartzell era stuff has a strong following, but IMO is a totally different animal from the Sundholm designed gear.

The “shelf port” Sunns are actually just Fenders wearing Sunn badges

As far as Sunn speakers, JBL D130F and D140F were OEM for Sunn cabs until 1972. What’s the “problem” with those? They don’t handle the power of modern drivers, but they sound magnificent and when you are using 200-300 watt amps how is power handling really an issue?

Exactly. Sunn was great when you could buy a beta bass for $100 and nobody wanted those "weird, ugly" tube amps with the slanted fronts.
At collector prices I'd rather buy a Hiwatt or Superbass.

I never did like the slanted fronts either. I still think they look a little goofy, but old Sunns are still a bargain compared to old Hiwatts and/or Marshalls.


If the OP wants to know about Sunns, this isn't the place though.


Link Removed is where the real Sunn experts hang out!
A much lower traffic site, nowhere near as quick moving as TB, but friendlier and substantially more knowledgeable Sunn info there.