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Sunn woes (Tube and otherwise)

Matt Till said:
Also, a generic question: Where can I find more information about tubes... What tube is right? What tubes do? How I know when tubes are too old? Etc. Because someone told me Sonic I's can eat up tubes pretty bad.

This is the simplest explanation I could find with a quick google search. Deeper searching will turn up more info.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

The above link contains no math or electronic theory, and just a brief explanation of what different tubes do in different parts of your amp, with sidenotes regarding why certain manufacturers used one type over another.
 
Matt Till said:
I'm trying to find out generally what I want! I don't want to take my amp to a professional and say, "Excuse me, something is not nice with my amp and I want it to be nice, could you make it nice?"

Why not? That's what technicians are for. Any decent tech can tell you in a few minutes if there's anything wrong with your amp and if there isn't anything wrong with it (You just need another with more power) they generally don't charge you.

The reason I'm so strong in my cautions is there are a LOT of people on here with more amp repair "advice" than actual knowledge. You can waste a lot of money on things like preamp tubes when all that needed fixing is in some cases, a 17 cent resistor. 99% of problems with tube amps are NOT the tubes anyway!!!!
 
Matt Till said:
See, that's what I'm thinking.... the Sceptre is pretty much the same model. And I'm in a "louder than average" band... I'm fighting over LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUD guitars. This is a very important point I forgot to make. What does this bring to the table? Is 60 watts just not enough?
If 60 tube watts is not enough, that Berhinger head will not be enough either probabally. But my suggestion is to try to make due with that head, along with whatever technical repairs you can get done, until you have enough money to afford something substantially bigger.
 
Matt Till said:
I'm trying to find out generally what I want! I don't want to take my amp to a professional and say, "Excuse me, something is not nice with my amp and I want it to be nice, could you make it nice?"

That'd be an OK thing to say to many techs, actually. But you could also ask your tech to take a look at all the filter caps for starters. Old worn out ones could easily cause your symptoms. All the other suggestions so far have merit as well, but I agree with PBG's advice to just go see a tech. Even if you're going to sell the amp, you'll get a much better number if it's working properly, eh?

If you want to educate yourself a bit on tubes and tube circuits, try following the links at Invalid Link Removed.
 
PBG: Sorry for online fighting with you, but I can't take getting lectured right now... I'm getting quite enough of that from the "mrs." .... aggg



QUESTION number... 42525: Why is it that my Sonic I, rated a 60 watts is so much more powerful than my Crate that I use to have at 220 watts?? Is it a matter of Tube vs. Solid state?

Smash (in the other thread) really has me considering that Traynor Mono Block II now...... aggggggg
 
Matt Till said:
PBG: Sorry for online fighting with you, but I can't take getting lectured right now... I'm getting quite enough of that from the "mrs." .... aggg



QUESTION number... 42525: Why is it that my Sonic I, rated a 60 watts is so much more powerful than my Crate that I use to have at 220 watts?? Is it a matter of Tube vs. Solid state?

Smash (in the other thread) really has me considering that Traynor Mono Block II now...... aggggggg
Do a search on tube vs ss.
 
Matt Till said:
PBG: Sorry for online fighting with you, but I can't take getting lectured right now... I'm getting quite enough of that from the "mrs." .... aggg

Dude, it's fine. I understand not having a lot of money to throw around for gear. I may have pile now, but I got most of it broken and fixed it up myself. I also understand your frustration with your rig not doing what you want. You're not being a jerk; you're just frustrated.

There are a lot of well meaning posters here with just enough knowledege to be dangerous and even a few who would intentionally give you bad advice just to be mean. The lecture is just me trying to help you and I'm sorry if I came off sounding condescending. For once, it wasn't intentional.

QUESTION number... 42525: Why is it that my Sonic I, rated a 60 watts is so much more powerful than my Crate that I use to have at 220 watts?? Is it a matter of Tube vs. Solid state?

...basically, but there are other factors, too.

Smash (in the other thread) really has me considering that Traynor Mono Block II now...... aggggggg

They're killer amps, and if you can find a cheap one (not that hard) you'll have a great amp.
 
I have a feeling that active bass may have something to do with it. You've probably noticed most new amps have a -(insert number) decible cut pad button next to the input jack. This is to compensate for active basses higher output, and not overdrive the amplires pre amp. I have no experience with active basses in my old Sunn's so this is just a wild guess. Just for the heck of it, turning the volume on the Sunn up to about six, with the bass and treble at about 5, volume on the bass at 0. Try slowley turning the volume up on the bass untill it starts to distort. Then back the volume off on the bass just a tick untill it doesn't distort any more. Then ask is it louder than before. This may prove to be useless, but it's worth a try.
I'd still have a tech give it a good once over. I play in a LOUD 3 piece rock band with mine and it's plenty loud with a passive bass.
OR maybe try it with a passive bass????
Also the 12AX7 to 12AU7 tube swap might help too. That's the small tube that you can't see, infront of the transformer on the right hand side as you face the back of the amp. That tube should be WAY less than $20.
If you need more help , feel free to PM me, and I'll do my best to help.
Just trying to help.
 
Until the early-mid 70's, Sunn marketed their amps as a head/speaker cab matched set. They didn't sell amps or cabs "ala carte". You could but an extension speaker cab seperate, but all heads came with a cabinet.
The Sonic l is a 2 X EL34 40 watt amp that was originally paired with a 1X15 enclosure loaded with a JBL D130, meant to do multiple duty as a guitar, keyboard, or bass amp. The Sonic l-40 is the same amp head paired with same enclosure but loaded with a JBL D140 instead, and was meant for bass.
Regardless, it should hold together until 7 or so, not breakup at 3.
The problem you are having is most likely, or at least compounded by, old leaky filter capacitors. They can't be good if they are original - they are 40 yrs old. Bad filter caps or bad tubes will both cause the problem you are describing.
Don't dump the old power tubes until you test them on an accurate tube tester, they may be worth something if they have any life left in them.
But.....It's 40 watts, not 60. It won't keep up in a loud band no matter what you or a tech might do to it.
If you want to learn tubes, surf and read, there is a lot of stuff out there. Some on the mark, and a bunch of "urban legends".
Find the book (yes, BOOK, like in school) "Beginner's Guide to Tube Audio Design" by Bruce Rozenblit. It will give you the knowledge of which you seek, and it's pretty user friendly. Just go slow and keep a calculator and note pad handy. If it where easy, everybody would be an expert.
Of course, if you read the posts on this and most other music forums, everybody already IS an expert!
 
Matt Till said:
See, that's what I'm thinking.... the Sceptre is pretty much the same model. And I'm in a "louder than average" band... I'm fighting over LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUD guitars. This is a very important point I forgot to make. What does this bring to the table? Is 60 watts just not enough?

Yes, I had the same experience with my '69 Sorado. It's a wonderful tone, and I used to be able to turn it up to 6 or 7 for good distortion, and I gigged it hard for a long time that way, but I finally decided it was not enough power and got a SS power amp. I'll probably never sell my Sorado, but it mostly gathers dust now. I brought it out for a series of rehearsals last year and it seemed to have less headroom -- one day I'll bring it to a tech for new caps and tubes.

One thing that helped me gig in a loud band w/ only 60 watts was an efficient 2x12 cab placed up on top of a case so it was right behind my head. The PA carried the room, and the Sorado was enough for me and the drummer, usually.

I'd recommend putting your cab behind your head and saving money for a SS poweramp. There are many deals on used amps, power is the cheapest it's ever been! :hyper: Or you could save up a lot longer and get a big tube head.
 
If I were in your place, I would keep the tube head until I could afford to have it fixed by a good tech and search out something SS to use in the meantime. 60 watts of tube power is enough for a lot of gigs. Not enough for others. I can be VERY annoying with 80 watts of Crate tube power and a little cab. Well, I don't even try to fight the guitars. I am after the drummer! Keep that tube head for later so you don't suffer the "wish I didn't sell that" syndrom.
 
Selling your Sunn would, IMHO, be a mistake that you'll spend many years regreting. Selling it for a Behringer will be a mistake that you'll regret even longer--possibly several lifetimes. :^>)

Move slowly and think about what you're doing. I play in a LOUD band and I use a Sunn 200S--60 watts with 2x15 JBL speakers in the cab. When properly maintained, as PBG and others have gently tried to explain, these babies can kick. It will cost you FAR less in the long run to get your present rig running properly........and your butt won't be nearly as sore from self inflicted bootings. PLUS, you'll continue to be a "Sultan of Sunn"--the highest ranking order of bass players on this or any other planet! :^>)