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SVT cl and V models

S

suraci

Apr 11, 2005
1,014
100
#1
I am continuing to compare the two SVT models- CL and VR

I noticed something on the VR model last night @ store.
It did not "graciously" accept my turning the volume very low ( 7 or 8 oclock)
and pulling the strings very hard on my pre cbs Fender
It consistently and badly distorted the amp- not the speakers.

This amp distortion did NOT occur with the cl model, although I did not fiddle much with the volume and gain knobs to try to provoke or replicate this amp distortion.

Is this a characteristic of the VR set 7 o clock maybe 8 o clock, or is it a bad amp/ tube?

It is priced cheaper than the CL too!!!
 
#5
Thank you all

Mind you- I am plucking VERY hard but at VERY low vol setting- closer to 7 0clock than 10 0clock. A very pronounced distortion.

The price of the cl in the GC store is around $1700
The VR is LESS at around $1500
 
#6
If you're plucking very hard, it could just be your bass causing a distortion that sounds like a bad tube. Sometimes it's hard to tell string rattle/buzz from amp distortion. Then again, I could be wrong, and that's the reason they're selling it for $1500. Hard to tell without being there.
 
#8
Well, looking at the SVT schematic (original, not the VR...I don't have the VR schematics, but again, I would assume it is similar) one of the first components the incoming signal hits is the first triode of a 12DW7 tube. It sounds like you are simply overdriving this stage with your aggressive attack. The volume control will have no affect on this what so ever.
 
#9
Thank you Jazzman ( are you a jazz musician? )

Again, same ultra heavy finger plucking, different result on the CL.

If you get a chance test my experience yourself(selves).

I am curious if it is the early stage of the SVT
and WHY it does not occur with the CL ( a different vol gain situation? )

I am leaning slightly towards the CL... but people say the VR is a bit better
So I try the VR and I get this distortion under extreme plucking. That is where i am now. i must try this on another VR.

Is the Jerrold person nearby to lend his expertise?
 
#11
Jazzman said:
Well, looking at the SVT schematic (original, not the VR...I don't have the VR schematics, but again, I would assume it is similar) one of the first components the incoming signal hits is the first triode of a 12DW7 tube. It sounds like you are simply overdriving this stage with your aggressive attack. The volume control will have no affect on this what so ever.
Click to expand...
It's a 12AX7 in the VR...MTI redesigned SVT's in the 80's to use more common tubes. Since then, SLM and LOUD have stuck with it. Very little difference tonally, if at all, since 12DW7's are half 12AX7, half 12AU7.
 
#13
suraci said:
Thank you Jazzman ( are you a jazz musician? )

Again, same ultra heavy finger plucking, different result on the CL.

If you get a chance test my experience yourself(selves).

I am curious if it is the early stage of the SVT
and WHY it does not occur with the CL ( a different vol gain situation? )

I am leaning slightly towards the CL... but people say the VR is a bit better
So I try the VR and I get this distortion under extreme plucking. That is where i am now. i must try this on another VR.

Is the Jerrold person nearby to lend his expertise?
Click to expand...

That this not occurring with the CL does not surprise me. As you allude to, they do have different gain structures. Looking at the schematic of the CL, there are several resistors before the first tube...but analyzing exactly what they are doing (other than dissipating energy in the form of heat) is beyond my knowledge. [I am a mechanical engineer by day, so I do have some electrical knowledge, but by no means can I do an in depth of analysis of an MI schematic.]

I can say however, that having considerable experience playing both the SVT-CL and old SVT, the CL is a much cleaner and more refined sounding head. Especially in the preamp section.

Hopefully Jerrold will chime in. It is a shame PBG is gone.

JimmyM said:
It's a 12AX7 in the VR...MTI redesigned SVT's in the 80's to use more common tubes. Since then, SLM and LOUD have stuck with it. Very little difference tonally, if at all, since 12DW7's are half 12AX7, half 12AU7.
Click to expand...

I still give that a :rollno:. I was under the impression it was a reproduction of the SVT with the addition of a protection circuit on the power amp. ...damn marketing guys mislead me.
 
#14
suraci said:
...
I am leaning slightly towards the CL... but people say the VR is a bit better
Click to expand...

Suraci,

The VR and the CL are, IMHO, not even close. I've played 70s SVTs in gigging bands in the 80s and 90s, and the CL does not sound the same. When I was back in the market for an SVT, I actually purchased a CL and a VR and played them both at the gig. The VR has way more balls than the CL. The VR sounds very much to my ears like the older SVTs I used to play. The CL did not come close. Just my .02 and IMO and all that.

-M
 
#15
Jazzman I am going back and forth between cl and vr- you are the first person who has said the cl is more refined . i appreciate this. Do you think others experience the 2 amps this way as well? So far , only one other player prefers the CL on TB.

Do you play jazz?
 
#16
MikeyB said:
Suraci,

The VR and the CL are, IMHO, not even close. I've played 70s SVTs in gigging bands in the 80s and 90s, and the CL does not sound the same. When I was back in the market for an SVT, I actually purchased a CL and a VR and played them both at the gig. The VR has way more balls than the CL. The VR sounds very much to my ears like the older SVTs I used to play. The CL did not come close. Just my .02 and IMO and all that.

-M
Click to expand...

Oh boy, the plot thickens!
Ok, "balls" but are they of equal volume or loudness??

How about jazzman's report that the CL is cleaner... which suggests much more headroom ( you know, my distortion issue w VR )

Thank you for your opinion.. appreciate it much
 
#17
Interesting question, because I think one plays an SVT because of the tone that only an SVT can give. So, if that tone is not what you're after then I'd personally go with something else lighter weight and less $$.

I can't say which one will get "louder" - never really compared them in that way, but I do believe the VR delivers the goods better and will probably be plenty loud for most folks.

-M
 
#18
MikeyB said:
Interesting question, because I think one plays an SVT because of the tone that only an SVT can give. So, if that tone is not what you're after then I'd personally go with something else lighter weight and less $$.

I can't say which one will get "louder" - never really compared them in that way, but I do believe the VR delivers the goods better and will probably be plenty loud for most folks.

-M
Click to expand...

One "solution" is to buy both and return one- but i hate to return stuff.

'something cheaper, smaller, or lighter'?? What? nothing i know of sounds as good as svt. i am just dealing in flavors of svt.
Thanks much
 
#19
suraci said:
Jazzman I am going back and forth between cl and vr- you are the first person who has said the cl is more refined . i appreciate this. Do you think others experience the 2 amps this way as well? So far , only one other player prefers the CL on TB.

Do you play jazz?
Click to expand...

Well, when I say more refined, I mean the preamp is a little cleaner sounding, the controls seem to behave in a more linear fashion, and the bottom end is much cleaner. The lows don't have the extensive low end range that the older Ampeg products do. I think the best way I can put it into words is the CL is more "polite sounding." It isn't posessed by the devil like those other heads. ;) To be honest, I prefer the tone of the CL over the other SVT variations, but I am certainly in the minority with that respect. I sold my early 70s and mid 70s SVT heads because I was not using them...the SVT-CL was the one I preferred to take to gigs.

I do play jazz, but that is with my double bass only...through a B-15N or GK setup. It is rock when I pick up the electric bass guitar.
 

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