SVT810E speaker 26.5ohm?

[higgi]

I have an older SVT810E Serial #1912. The speakers in it have the current part number used by Ampeg. 86-032-01. Three of the speakers have been changed, but they have the same part number as the older speakers. Problem is they have an Xmax of about 1/8" from static position till the coil touches the magnet. The older speakers can be pushed back much further, in fact I can't get them to touch the magnet with out ripping the cone. Ampeg only sells a 32 ohm now. The Ampeg rep. said this cab was made during the MPI years.

Can I just replace these 3 speakers with newer ones that are 32 ohm and still get the cab to work properly? Do I need to change all 8? Flip tops sells a set of 8 for $450. They also have Jensens, 8 for $250. Can anyone comment on the Jensens? Bill F said in another thread that they have an Xmax of 1.5mm. I couldn't find that anywhere or what the Xmax of the eminence is. Anybody know of a cheaper source of speakers? Suggestions?

The speakers that are in there sound fine at low volume, if you get loud you have to drop the bass freq to not fart or bang the magnets. I would be afraid the jensens with that short xmax would do the same thing. I need something that can handle a low B at high volumes.

Is this cab rare? Should I leave alone, sell it and get a modern SVT810?

By the way this cab is made with 3/4" 7ply plywood. Awesome.

 

[Jerrold Tiers]

If the speakers that are ORIGINAL have that part number, ir isn't an MTI, but an SLM unit.

However, the 86-032-01 is the closest speaker to the original CTS speakers possible, and it IS 32 ohm. It is an Eminence speaker, and the founder of Eminence worked for CTS. So there is a closer connection than just a 'copy".

The 86-032 IS a short Xmax driver. The ORIGINAL 810 is NOT FOR really loud and low, nor is the newer one. It has a cutoff between 50 and 60 Hz. The SVT-4PRO and similar power level amps WILL bang the speakers, so don't DO that.

There is a newer 10" with a much larger Xmax, used in the higher powerd cabinets. I don't recall the part number offhand. It could be put in, all 8 at once.

But the simpler way is to swap for the higher powered version speaker. probably cheaper anyway.

BTW, an Xmax of 1/8 inch one direction is about 3mm...........

 

[Emergancy Exit]

wow i payed $500 for a hardly used ampeg SVT810E at guitacenter and there are deals like that all over the place i dont think a $450"repai/update" is worth it expecially if you want the newer speakers

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Problem is they have an Xmax of about 1/8" from static position till the coil touches the magnet. .

The distance it takes the coil to reach the backplate is xlim. The ratio of xlim to xmax usually runs from 2:1 to 4:1.
Bass drivers average 3mm xmax, and at least 8mm xlim. If you've got drivers that bottom out with 1/8" (3mm) travel there's something wrong. An xlim that short would indicate a meager 1mm xmax, and they could well be mis-labeled guitar drivers.

 

[higgi]

Thank you guys for the replies.

Is it possible to just replace those three speakers with a 32 ohm version? I guess it would make the other 5 work extra hard.

Thank you Bill for the xlim explanation. I am a noob to speakers.

This cab was $500 dollars but they gave me $200 trade with my old homemade 115. I didn't expect to get a trade at all so it is almost like I paid $300 dollars for the cab. So with a new 8 pack that would make it a $750-$800 cab. A tad expensive for a used 810, unless the extra heavy construction made the cab worth that cost compared to the new ones. The new cabs have 1/2" side boards from what I have seen.

 

[higgi]

I have been corresponding with the rep from Ampeg. He is going to see if he can get a good deal for some speakers. They were a little puzzled at first, then they figured out it was made during the MTI period 80-84. I just got a reply this morning about getting a set of speakers.

I have been impressed so far with the level of support they are giving me for a 27 year old product.

Yea Ampeg!

 

[okabass]

They also have Jensens, 8 for $250. Can anyone comment on the Jensens?

HI

I have those cheap Jensens (MOD 10-50) in my DIY SVT 8x 10" bass cab. They've worked surprisingly well. Several different style bassisist have checked the rig, and all have been impressed the sound, fullness, clarity and the feel.

http://www.okabass.suntuubi.com/?cat=10

I drive the cab by my all tube 300W SVT amp clone. I've played now a few dozen gigs without any ill effects.

I don't know how a loud cab people need, but I only can say, that my rigs volume level is enough to my needs.

I have not A/B-tested "the real thing" and my cab.

 

[higgi]

Nice looking cab!

I see you play 5 string. Can you max out your amp with a flat eq and not slap the coils against the magnets? I have a 300 watt GK backline. I run it maxed out with this cab during a show, the fan stays on high. I like the sound of the power section overdrive.

 

[Jerrold Tiers]

I'll say it AGAIN....

The speaker part number you quoted is an SLM 32 ohm speaker......... NOT an MTI number. They are not "26.5 ohm" they are 32 ohm.

I have NO idea where the "26.5 ohm" number came from.......... if you are referring to the 86-032-01 parts.......

if the CABINET is an MTI product, that doesn't mean the speakers are wrong for it, it just means they have been replaced. The MTI cabinet volume should be pretty similar to the Ampeg or SLM version, and work similarly with the same type speakers. I understood you to say that ALL the speakers have that part number.

The 86-032-01 is a short-throw old-style speaker, specifically made to be as close to the original CTS 10" as possible, and with significant power levels it DOES hit the magnet. It won't do that with an "SVT" of the 300, 2PRO, CL, VR, or vintage variety, but it may very well with boosts and a 4PRO etc.

It would be easier, and probably cheaper in the long run to get a different 810 if that one is not suitable for the amp you want to use it with.

Note that the person endorsing the Jensens is ALSO using them with a tube 300W amp. That will not give the problems you found using what I assume is a lot more power. But, I would expect, if the Xlim OR Xmax is 1.5mm, that you will have a similar problem with them.

You want the higher power and lower tuned cab version, which has speakers with a 'dished" back plate. They won't have the magnet hitting problem........

 

[asad137]

I have NO idea where the "26.5 ohm" number came from..........

Maybe he measured the DC resistance with a multimeter?

Asad

 

[Emergancy Exit]

yeah the new 8x10s have a board in the middle that seperates the bottom from the top it is supposed to keep the top end from vibraeing the bottom end and vice versa and overal sturdyer construction.

 

[okabass]

Nice looking cab!

I see you play 5 string. Can you max out your amp with a flat eq and not slap the coils against the magnets?

HI

Probably yes. I don't see much sense doing such a crash test. It can damage the speakers.
I can only say, that the speakers have not bottomed up yet. I've played the cab as loud as I probably ever need (quite loud), and it takes that ok.

 

[higgi]

I'll say it AGAIN....

The speaker part number you quoted is an SLM 32 ohm speaker......... NOT an MTI number. They are not "26.5 ohm" they are 32 ohm.

I have NO idea where the "26.5 ohm" number came from.......... if you are referring to the 86-032-01 parts.......

I read the part number and the ohms in large print on the speaker. I also checked it with a meter. They are the original speakers. Apparently MTI just put what ever they could in it, and the rep said no records were kept. Don't make me take pictures cause I don't have a digital camera.

The original owner replaced THREE speakers in it with speakers that have the same printing on them but the much shorter throw coil. I think Bill F is right, they are mislabeled guitar speakers(the three replacements). The original owner bought the replacement speakers from ampeg, who had a hard time finding what they thought were the correct speakers. But they sent the wrong speakers to the original owner.

I got screwed, not by any one intentionally. But the store, were I bought the cab used, won't take it back. The new speakers will bring the cost up to that of a new cab. I am stuck with it.

I may try and trade it for a GK810 at another music store. But I will end up losing money on that since I wont get as much as I paid for it. I guess it makes up for the good deal I got on my P bass.


If I ordered the newest replacements from ampeg would I still end up with a short throw speaker? Does the GK use the same speaker?

I am playing loud low death blues currently. I need all the volume and low end power I can get. I had assumed the SVT810E was my ticket but this one ain't.

 

[Bryan316]

Even a new SVT810E isn't designed for the kind of low end you're asking for. Those Ampeg Fridges are designed for old-fashioned loud rock n roll. They're sealed cabs, so no porting to help you get superdeep like the 35-40hz range.

I would recommend you go try out an Ampeg SVT610HLF. The bottom of the cab is indeed ported, and the tonality is far deeper than the Fridge. It's also a smaller cab, and easier to move and lift. I loved it when I used it for 2 years.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

I think Bill F is right, they are mislabeled guitar speakers(the three replacements).

Depending on the vintage. The drivers used in the original SVT were guitar drivers, as in 1969 there were no bass specific drivers in that price range. That's why the original SVT set-up used two 8x10s. Trying to find specs on the original driver is dodgy, as T/S didn't exist then. Also, the numbers on the driver being Ampeg numbers it's possible that they were assigned to different drivers from different sources over the years.

 

[Bryan316]

...Also, the numbers on the driver being Ampeg numbers it's possible that they were assigned to different drivers from different sources over the years.

That right there is the answer. That sucks.

 

[Jerrold Tiers]

How MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT?

The NUMBER IS AN SLM NUMBER It has ALWAYS BEEN an SLM number.

MTI NEVER IN THEIR FUZZY LITTLE LIVES EVER PUT THOSE IN. ANY OF THEM.

I am starting to doubt if MTI ever saw your speaker. It COULD be an SLM Ampeg, from before the more recent serial number system. From the "skunk works" days.

86 is the category code for speakers in the SLM part number system Just as 10 was for non-electrolytic caps, and 94 for transformers.

That system goes back into the late 1970's well before SLM ever bought the Ampeg brand.

So, those numbers are FOR THE SLM CTS COPY that was done by Eminence, and probably the original info was from the founder, who may have designed the original speaker for Ampeg.

Bill is right, the speakers are old tech from the 1960's and are not bass-specific. But they ARE what Ampeg used then, or as close as possible to it.

No that cabinet won't do low low end, as I said.... It DOES do the pistol shot thing if you boost everything with over about 700W or so. That is why I have been saying that it might be easier to get another cab, as opposed to fitting that one out with new speakers.

The higher power longer throw 10" might do the job, that is what it is for, and the cab's made with them will "take" a 4 pro bridged, which the style you have will NOT.

Yours will have flat speaker backs. The higher power ones, for which I have forgotten but can find the number, have a "dished" back to the magnet, and may do exactly what you want.

Oh, BTW, they are 32 ohm. So are yours. 26.5 is about right for the DC resistance of a 32 ohm speaker...... which is what you measure with a "meter".

Sounds very much like the Loud folks have absolutely NO CLUE...... if they say those drivers are MTI......

 

[Hookus]

I really don't think anyone on TB would dispute JT as the residential Ampeg expert. His so far, has pretty much been the answer to all questions Ampeg.

I have spoken with Ampeg reps. And was amazed by their ignorance and cluelessness.

By the way, I thought speakers used impedance ratings, not resistance, which would mean the resistance depends on frequency, no?

 

[Jerrold Tiers]

I have spoken with Ampeg reps. And was amazed by their ignorance and cluelessness.

By the way, I thought speakers used impedance ratings, not resistance, which would mean the resistance depends on frequency, no?

That would be the RECENT Ampeg reps..... Who may have been hired last week.... and weren't born yet when MTI took over. The old SLM Service Department had all the info, you couldn't stump them.

You are absolutely correct about impedance. Used to be measured at 400Hz, now it may be 1000 Hz, but either way, it is the AC impedance.

Thanks for the vote of confidence... I am certainly not the entire expert, but I WAS already there when SLM bought Ampeg, and right up to when Loud discontinued US engineering of Ampeg etc. So I do remember what is what with a lot of it, and I have access to a certain amount of old info also. Ain't nobody telling me an 86 number is an MTI part....... !

 

[higgi]

Thank you Jerrold Tiers for the info. I won't doubt you.

From the serial number and stuff could you hazard a guess at the Manufacture date? If you have the time, when was the MTI period, the SLM period, the Loud period? I realize I could buy a book, but I am cheap.

I also took your advise. I talked the music store into giving me in store credit since they wouldn't give me back my money. They only have used stuff, so I picked a Fender 115 8ohm 150watt continuous. And they gave me back my old 4ohm 115. I traded it at a pawnshop for a Fender 410pro 8ohm. Now I can have a stack when I need.

I sounds good, strong clear low end. Enough for a 300 watt Backline. But I do miss the sound of the Ampeg at low volumes, it has it's own thing. I would like to get that Ampeg SVT610hlf sometime when I have the money. I used a friend's 410HLF(I think, I will remember the data plate next time) at practice once, it sounded great, strong low end. Not as loud in the mid range as the 810 of course.

What was messing the picture up for me was the "26.5ohm" printing on the speaker part number tag. Do the new ones say that or 32ohm?