Switching from Active to Passive bass during a show

[CAW]

Your other post about the output of the wireless being active....does that mean the same dB signal for any bass??? So as long as I am using the wireless active/passive bass makes no difference in level??? That can't be right because I can still change the volume on the bass. Or maybe I am looking at this all wrong.

I was speaking strictly from an impedance perspective, not level. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Passive pickups have a much higher impedance than active pickups. That's partly why active, with its lower impedance, can generally be run over longer cable distances. The output on the wireless receiver will always have a fixed, low impedance regardless of what pickups your bass have. So amps that behave differently with regards to impedance won't "see" your bass' pickups because they're not physically connected. The amp will always "see" what looks like an active pickup from an impedance point of view. Only the wireless transmitter bodypack "sees" the pickups' actual impedance.

 

[blastoff99]

Good advice, but my active bass (a fretless, hollow-body acoustic bass guitar with piezo pickup and black nylon tapewound strings) is quite different from my passive solid body electric bass guitar. Both have unique sounds. The fretless is for a upright-type tone/vibe, the electric is for a more rockin' tone. Very different tools that are sometimes required during the same gig. So the OP's question is valid.

I'll jump in with a "me too" - the BL at church will often request that I bring my Godin A4 for an acoustic-ish sound for a special song, and my Yamaha BB1024 for the rest of it. The Godin is active and HOT; the Yamaha is passive (and also quite hot, but not the blow-the-doors-off level of the Godin). I run them both through a Morley A/B switch to the same tuner and DI. I work with the FOH volunteer to figure out what I need to do to send him the same level from each bass.

When it comes time to change instruments, I mute using the tuner, and tap the A/B switch. The mechanical "click" from the A/B switch is loud; there is no "pop" or other noise even under live switching. I set the volume on the bass to the proper level, un-mute, and away we go.

Is this ideal? No. In a perfect world I'd obviously run a channel for each bass. Does it work in real life, for what I and we need? Yes.

YMMV.

 

[Runnerman]

I was speaking strictly from an impedance perspective, not level. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Passive pickups have a much higher impedance than active pickups. That's partly why active, with its lower impedance, can generally be run over longer cable distances. The output on the wireless receiver will always have a fixed, low impedance regardless of what pickups your bass have. So amps that behave differently with regards to impedance won't "see" your bass' pickups because they're not physically connected. The amp will always "see" what looks like an active pickup from an impedance point of view. Only the wireless transmitter bodypack "sees" the pickups' actual impedance.

Ok cool. So it sounds like I should not be switching to the passive mode on the amp and should always remain active if I am running wireless. In the rehearsal room I always run corded to avoid unnecessarily killing batteries and I always switch the amp. Now I understand why I am having such a large volume increase switching to the passive setting live. The amp is still seeing active impedance from the wireless. This is a real revelation to me. Thanks CAW.

 

[4Mal]

I almost always cable 2 basses, sometimes 3. I run an SFx Micro Mix for 2 active basses with similar output levels, that feeds Channel 1 of a Radial Bassbone. The passive bass or Kala UBass depending on the gig goes in channel 2. I just bring the level down on channel 1 to balance the active basses with the bass in channel 2.

If I only cable 2 basses, the I skip the Micro Mix.

I have a Zoom B3 in the effects loop of the Bassbone. I always use the DI off the Radial as well. Never had a sound guy that didn't want to use it... The bassbone is a supremely useful device.

 

[Jebberz]

Interesting. For this option looks like I would have to run a separate wireless or the second bass corded which I suppose would be doable.

You coiuld use the same wireless, In A/B mode, you can set two volumes while pluggin nothing in the send/return, and it will act as a two volumes preset box (I dit id whe on of my cables broke)

 

[georgestrings]

I'm not trying to start a crap fest here. But I am a sound man as well as a bass player. My suggestion (looking at it from both angles) would be to pick a bass and stick with it. Nobody in the audience cares if the songs you play jazz bass on sound all "passive and vintage and junk". And nobody cares if the ones you play Bongo on sound all active or brighter.

But even if you get the volume levels right, the tones are completely different. And that will cause the sound man to have to fit you back in the mix where you were with the other bass. In other words, every single time you switch to your second bass, the sound guy is going to do everything in his power to make it sound exactly like the first bass because that's how the band was mixed to begin with.

So do what you want, but it is probably a lot of effort for very little return.

All that being said, you are grown. I'm not saying what you are doing is "wrong". But it probably isn't having NEARLY the affect you think it is out front. Both basses (in essence) will sound exactly the same if the sound man can possibly make that happen..... and he will try.

IMO, a soundman that approaches things as you described is not doing his job, he's trying to play producer... I play both 4 string and 5 string basses, and they serve different purposes, and purposely sound different - *if* a soundman told me to "pick a bass and stick with it", he'd find himself with an sm58 shoved somewhere unpleasant...

" Nobody in the audience cares if the songs you play jazz bass on sound all "passive and vintage and junk". And nobody cares if the ones you play Bongo on sound all active or brighter."

Truthfully, I find this attitude to be pathetic - if that were truly the case, I would probably quit playing... I don't think you're giving the audience enough credit - people typically DO know when things sound good, and when they don't - and at a certain level of performance, different sounds actually do matter... The old "the audience doesn't care" attitude is flat out wrong, IMO/IME...

The soundman's job is to take what the stage mix sounds like, and put THAT thru the venue - NOT change things to what *he* thinks things should sound like... that, and to provide working monitors... nothing more, nothing less...


- georgestrings

 

[georgestrings]

Regarding the OP - I have never found "active/passive" pads on amps to be useful at all - I ALWAYS run them in passive mode, since the padded input typically sounds like crap, and pads too much... I *try* to set up my basses so that they match pretty closely, level-wise - but failing that, I have run a post-EQ DI send, and adjusted for output level differences with the Gain knob... IME, if your stage volume/mix stays the same by doing this, your FOH mix probably will, too...

With basses that "pair up well" with one another, I have had good results by setting my amp to sound good with my passive bass, then using the active's on-board EQ to work with those amp settings - that way, I can change back and forth during a set without a hitch...

If you have a pedalboard, Radial's Bassbone works well for this sort of thing, once dialed in... I don't use pedals, so I tend to make a workaround with my basses and amps...


- georgestrings

 

[Runnerman]

good suggestions georgestrings....thank you!

 

[ga_edwards]

One of the key features of active bass circuitry, is that you can adjust the volume without affecting tone - unlike passive basses.

As georgestrings says, setup the amp with the passive, then control the loudness of the active bass with it's volume control. It might 'feel' wrong or counter-intuitive to not run the bass flat out, but that's what the volume knob is for.