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Switching from Everyone’s Buddy to Full Charging Builder/Tech?

So maybe this is or maybe not appropriate for this section of Talkbass but it has been consuming me and I am harboring resentments and finding it hard to make boundaries. I am thinking there may be several if not many here that have been through what I am going through and made it to the other side without causing damage with fellow musicians and friends.

So I am not anything like a professional builder repair guy. I have a full time day job as a sales rep for a large company and have my shop in my basement. Although it’s part time I take it as seriously as possible and only have one night during the week and most Saturdays. I have a partner who builds with me as well but although he is gifted as a finisher and sander most of the core design, cuts, electronics and fretwork I do although he is picking everything up quickly. I do have more than a decade of repair work under my belt and I am now working on build 7 through 13 or at least trying to.

As I really began to take this seriously and invest boatloads of money in my shop I have always done work for friends for free as I was learning and developing my skills cutting my teeth so to speak and of course I still am. So now I still have friends come over and want me to do fret levels and crowing, set ups, electronic modifications and finish repairs and believe me I love doing it and making someone happy and helping to get an instrument to play, look, and feel as well as I possibly can and take much pride in this. Like a tattoo artist in the beginning giving free tattoos at some point one must stop all the free stuff and charge. I guess there is a part of me that wants to take care of my friends and really I love doing it. It’s not doing work for them that’s upsetting me it’s that when I am doing something for someone else I’m not working on my stuff, builds and my own basses.

So on one hand I feel since I am not a professional and do not rely on this for basic income although it’s nice I feel like maybe I shouldn’t ask for money but on the other hand it’s my time that is precious and little shop expenses do add up. I usually ask for donations for the shop without setting up any guidelines and sometimes they will give me a few bucks but many times not. Yeh I know I’m all over the place with this but I get pissed off and I think I have one commissioned build going and building other basses hopefully to be in a small regional show in 2017. I mean I know if they are my friends they will understand if I ask for money up front and if they don’t then don’t worry about it they can go somewhere else but it’s only partly about the money that’s maybe the last reason why I do this. Anyway what have you guys and gals done? If this should have been posted somewhere else or not at all forgive me mod just move me. Thanks for any feedback I don't want to hurt someone with a neck blank.
 
Yep. You have to get tough with them. Start charging them an hourly rate, even if it's just $5/hr. That's dirt cheap, a "friends" rate, but it will establish in their minds that your time does have value. Also, it gets you in the habit of keeping accurate records of how much time you actually spend on jobs. That's really important as you transition to being a business. You've got to do a timeclock thing, not just approximate guesses. I use an Excel spreadsheet "logbook" that I made up, and I keep accurate records of everything I do during the day. It constantly pays off, in billing customers, estimating for new jobs, and understanding where I'm wasting time and where to increase my efficiency.

The $5/hr thing will also quickly separate your friends. If they aren't willing to pay that, then they are insulting you. Let them walk away.
 
Thanks Bruce, excellent suggestion. $5/hr plus any parts etc. I think that is more than fair and hopefully gets rid of the ankle biters.

Like fret leveling that goes pretty fast more than anything I hate sitting there for 20 minutes putting tape all over the neck. In my mind I think oh that's just a 10 minute job but like you said the time adds up quickly. It's all the prep time removing strings, fixing the last guys handy work I always seem to run into something that gets me sidetracked and eats up another hour. Why do some guys think they need a half a bottle of CA to put a nut on? Just dumb stuff it goes on and on and next thing you know it's 11:30 at night and the guy won't leave.
 
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Means- hello to a fellow PA'er. Certainly Bruce offers sage advice! I really like his minimal shop rate. It will address some of your concerns and will prevent those who you suspect or feel are taking advantage to knock it off. I really hope to have your same problem soon with my refinishing business (hobby style so I can buy more basses and band gear) Interestingly enough, I have not done anthing for free from the start. All of the demos of my refinishing work are for sale, none have sold but its been about 2 weeks (haggling with a guy on the custom Squire which is my avatar) I have a buddy/business partner. I sprayed my last project (Iced Bongo #5) and took it to him to finish up. He offered to do the rest. All that I did was to finish the kit. I asked him how much he needed to charge me and he told me $25. I have done enough of these kits to know that the time he will spend with it and what I will get back will be worth $50 and some beers! haha. The ONLY thing I will do for free is work for my younger Youth Director at Church. I have known him since he was 6 and his inspiration and encouragment of me where guitar music is concerned, is not able to be described! Since he is a staff memeber at Church I will recieve a tax write of as services in kind and be happy to support his ministry. Good luck to you with your necessary changes to your paying hobby!

BTW- I am in sales as well. What industry do you call home?

Regards,
Brent
 
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Hey earlysecond.. I grew up in the restaurant business. I do have a 4 year degree split between fine and commercial art but since I was 13 years old I have had a job in restaurant kitchens. After a few decades of an almost duplicate life as Anthony Bourdain without his money or fame but all the debauchery and rehabs I wound up spending the last 17 years as a sales rep selling food and equipment to white tablecloth type restaurants and country clubs. My specialty is high end center of the plate..Kobe beef, Berkshire pork, crazy cheeses all that foo foo stuff. All through Lancaster, Harrisburg, Hershey and Reading areas.

I was thinking today of putting a sign up in my shop about charging this or that but when it really comes down to it I only have have two guys who I have issue with that I need to say something to. I think though having a well equipped shop is kin to owning a pickup truck or a pool in the summer you find yourself with more friends than you thought you had. I do like the vibe of local musicians coming and going and working on PRS guitars and talking smack but it's getting old looking at my own personal work collecting dust. This has been some good food for thought thanks guys.
 
Find me it what other local techs charge to do stuff, post the same prices, then charge buddies half.

What you charge for, is not for what you do, but for what you know (a lawyer being He prime example of that). Add to that the overhead of tools, etc, and you are worth far more than you think.

"Friends" should never expect anything for free.
 
The thing that came to mind for me was to come up with a company name, maybe make a sign for the shop (with company name, and another with shop rates), business cards, or something like that to make it visually apparent. Maybe have a get together to tell all your friends that you're in business. Regardless of how official it feels to you, make sure it's official with them. Ask them, "who wants to be my first customers?" Tell them that they'll get a friends discount, of course...
 
Means- That is a long time to be around any industry! I have years, many years in differnt aspects of healthcare sales. It's been a crazy ride but i have tried selling other things and just never did as well!

Best wishes as you change your business model and plans!

Brent
 
I still do "free work" for my buddies, but they always help me out in return. I have a few buddies who work in a sign shop that will cut free vinyl logos for me, or one buddy who will take photos for me. So it all comes out in the wash. Once I offered my services and got a free rock cruise out of it, I came out ahead on that one.
 
Way to run a tab!! haha But if the rest of the pleasure cruise was free. . . you can probably justify the spend. Good on you man!

I won a cruise in a sales contest once. . . had a nice time

Yeah, it was worth every penny. It was the 2014 Shiprocked. It was a great time, my liver still isn't talking to me two years later LOL
 
Now THAT is a serious bender. . . to have liver issues years later! OK, we better quit hi-jacking Means' post. He's down to the serious business of a fledgling business. I hope to have some more of these problems soon. I have not really advertised to this point though.

I created my signature as a reminder. . . .I spent MOST of last weekend's hours pounding out a paintjob on a bass kit. I get a bit carried away.
 
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I still do "free work" for my buddies, but they always help me out in return. I have a few buddies who work in a sign shop that will cut free vinyl logos for me, or one buddy who will take photos for me. So it all comes out in the wash. Once I offered my services and got a free rock cruise out of it, I came out ahead on that one.
Yep. That works with the right people. When I was into yacht racing, one of my friends was a sail maker. He wanted some computer programming done to help with sail design and pricing. I wrote his software and he made my sails. After he had done an overnight to replace a spinnaker I had blown out on the first day of a regatta, I told him I was concerned I was getting a better deal from the relationship than he was. He insisted he felt like he was taking advantage of me. It was a complete win/win thing.
 
some sort of informal buddy rate could be a start and is best kept on the down-low. your true friends will understand and keep it to themselves (hopefully) or everyone that they may refer to you will want the "buddy" rate as well. this will get difficult to manage if your business grows. the buddy rate can be increased to reduce the blood loss by an "expedited" turnaround.

i think that in the long run though you're gonna have to get a grip on the favors and let the chips fall. like i said your true friends will understand and support you -the others... well, that's your own personal business imo.
 
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This is a thread about friend pricing
Thanks Hopkins I guess I knew that but hate to see people devalue their work. It may make sense to figure out what you WOULD charge and offer a "friends discount" of a given % that way the friend will know what the farir market value of the work is. I am not a luthier but have a good friend who is when he does work for me he lets me assist and it is amazing to me how much work goes in to a refret.
 
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