Thanks for all the feedback - i should have clarified that i was specifically talking about electric bass
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Switching from OFPF to 1-2-4 Left Hand Technique
- Thread starter Debaser4635
- Start date
1-2-4 (or 1-3-4, with the point being a 2-stop span as opposed to a 3-stop span) takes time to adopt if you have been playing 3-stop span for a while. For the specific notes you give, the Simandl method would point you in the direction of G with pinky (4), open 3rd string for the A and index (1) for the Bb (highlighted green below).
More relevant, perhaps, are the exercises that cover the half- and I positions, and the notes that cover minor 3rds with no open string options, highlighted yellow: Here you can see the shift happens with the first finger, both descending and ascending:
Having no open strings makes the fingering transposable, so if you wanted to play it all on the E string, you could just move the whole thing up a bit and play thus:
Just remember to release your index finger from the G as you make the half-step shift from the II position to the II/III intermediate position., otherwise you aren't really shifting. If you want, you could place index on Ab whilst playing the A - there isn't really any physical need to do so but it will help you develop good hand-shape and better precision and confidence with your shifting overall.
Does it really? In thumb position you don't really use the 4th finger. And you can start thumb position as early as E3 on the G string . I really understood that the role of the 3rd finger is to assist the 4th. If you cut or hurt you thirds finger this would be very obvious
Shifting is the key on EB on the lower positions. If you have a 36 or even 35 scale this will be very evident, It is not just the fret spread but the nut is further away and your wrist is also twisted a bit. You have to shift -- microshift. Root - 5th double stops like from Ab to F will be a stretch with 1-3, you will have to use 4 for the fifth but assisted by the third
And you can also do what Rocco Prestia does. I finger chromatic runs on one string *using 3 or 4 to mute, That is why do 1 string scale exercises. Also do it with all the fingers
Or go extreme, and do 7 or more frets for every 4 fingers -
Baseball bat mitt glove fingering for pedal notes is good too as noted by somebody above. Mix it up. Just play cleanly and correctly.
All the threads about how to pluck and I always say "I don't think about the right hand, it just does what it does automatically." This thread has made me realize that I don't think about my left hand either. The only time I think about how I am fingering is if I realize I am getting tired early and that usually means I am using too much pressure. Jazznfunk taught me an excellent lesson about loosening up my grip, how to do so, and I won't repeat it, cause it's his idea. Anyway, whatever I'm doing works for me and I have other things to use my brain for than calculating which fingers to use. TMI.
The greatest thing I learned witnessing Rocco live was that moving your left hand is allowed.
Once I embraced that , I basically stopped worrying about how many fingers per fret
and slavishly adhering to one technique or the other, I mix and match
and use whatever finger I need to whenever I need to use it.
95% of the music I play does not demand some kind of optimized biomechanical efficiency.
If a passage gives me trouble I will spend some time adjusting and experimenting
to find a way to play it with relaxed accuracy , which for me outweighs any specifics of technique
The material determines what is the optimal approach
Sometimes it's 124, sometimes 1234, sometimes 134,
sometimes 1144 (remember: moving your left hand is allowed.)
Mambo4 has hit it exactly above. The whole purpose of practice and doing repetitive exercises across the range of the fretboard is to figure out those fingering patterns in advance and run through all the permutations. You figure out what works for running a pattern or connecting two patterns and then drill it into muscle memory. They it just comes to you when you call on it, or when you hear it in your head. I call it the switchboard. You don't have to consciously think about it. Thinking should be about what is coming ahead.
I find my fingers almost always work but if there is a problem, it's that the switchboard is overloaded, or closed for the day. "One ringy, dingy, two ringy dingy...."
I find my fingers almost always work but if there is a problem, it's that the switchboard is overloaded, or closed for the day. "One ringy, dingy, two ringy dingy...."
I hear more people say that. What’s the reason for that? Shifting with the pinky is not harder than shifting with any other finger.
Shifting approaches can become a VERY deep rabbit hole to fall down. My teacher plays guitar more than bass, so the starting point is a bit different, but he's developed a system where every single shift follows a set of rules to maximize efficiency and ensure all his shifts follow concise patterns, which makes it way easier to blaze up and down the fretboard because your shapes are consistent. We've had a lot of deep conversations on shifting theory!
The easy answer is that you want to shift in order to access more of the fretboard. If you shift up with the pinky you have only extended your reach by a single fret, meaning you probably have to make another shift as soon as you want to access anything further up. Pretty much any other shifting choice is going to open up a greater amount of new fretboard real estate, and if you want each shift to be as efficient as possible, the more you can access with a single move, the better.
For me it’s primarily that the pinky finger is not as strong or stable as the first and second fingers.
Sure. But I am using pinky shift mostly if the line ends with a pinky and doesn’t go any higher. Mostly half steps and whole steps. But I shift mostly with the first finger. But bassicaly any finger can be used shifting. Totally depends on the specific bassline. So no strict rules for me.
Then the question I'd ask is: am I really using the most efficient fingering possible if the line requires a single pinky shift?
I do a lot of shifting exercises, including the George Benson style single finger runs, where you'll run 4+ frets with your first finger, to move from one position to another. If you get into sweeping or doing arpeggios with techniques like open-hammer-pluck then having really efficient shifting strategies becomes more important, since both hands have to keep up with one another.
Only reason I can see to do it is you are running up the upper string on your bass via pinky slide and then coming down with the other fingers on the lower strings. Thinking about it, I've done that but it is an unusual move. I'd be more likely to just drop to an open, or a position on a lower string, which isn't really a shift? Any other ideas for this move?
I agree that the pinkie is not generally the best for shifting, especially when a line continues in the same direction. But I also agree that every finger can and should be used to shift (when appropriate).
SBL teaches a 6 fret box. With OFPF the fingers sit over 4 frets and you pivot up or down one fret to get 5 and 6. A pinkie shift would be the best choice to reach out of the regular 4 fret box and come back.
Pivoting up and down a half step is also a common technique for upright players who use 1,2,4. I don't believe Simandl mentions the pivot. However, I was taught primarily from Simandl and I was taught to pivot. I assume the pivot originated with Rabbath.
Another situation where I will shift on the pinkie is when I am sliding a finger across frets to create a greasy bass line. Basically slurring notes across frets.
SBL teaches a 6 fret box. With OFPF the fingers sit over 4 frets and you pivot up or down one fret to get 5 and 6. A pinkie shift would be the best choice to reach out of the regular 4 fret box and come back.
Pivoting up and down a half step is also a common technique for upright players who use 1,2,4. I don't believe Simandl mentions the pivot. However, I was taught primarily from Simandl and I was taught to pivot. I assume the pivot originated with Rabbath.
Another situation where I will shift on the pinkie is when I am sliding a finger across frets to create a greasy bass line. Basically slurring notes across frets.
I have studied classical guitar and also play a lot of electric guitar and there you do quite a lot of shifts with the third (ring) finger, especially in pentatonic lines, or when doing slides etc. That is sort of the equivalent of the pinky on bass in the lower positions. So it is not so uncommon. But I agree and in general I shift more with the first finger, just to be prepared for what is coming and to be in the new position as fast as possible and have more span for higher notes. But in itself there is nothing wrong with a pinky shift. It's just another trick in the bag.
That makes since if you are playing up chromatically, as this suggests to me. However since I primarily use OFPF on bass guitar, I would probably play 1,2,3,shift 1,2,3. Depending on what happens next, I might play 1,2,3,shift 2,3,4. But for me 2,3,4 is weaker than 1,2,3. 2 to 4 is weaker than 1 to 3 for me. That doesn't mean I never use 2 to 4.
All my fingers are strong enough especially my pinkie, but I just try to avoid that "spectacle" of "lifting your pinky."
When I watch bass players' youtube videos and see it happening, it makes me "cringe."
It's only my personal opinion/view.
Yeah, I've seen Scott doing a lot of micro shifts. Works well on jazz and altered chords. Thank you for reminding me of that technique, I don't usually think about it, or use it, but it does work.
I was practicing bebop and realized I micro shift all the time, for some reason I am not even aware I'm doing it. The big shifts are the ones that seem to take some thought?
I wrote a long-ish post about this elsewhere years back, but I can't find it. Anyway, TL;DR, I'd contend that so-called OFPF is often misunderstood. It shouldn't be viewed as something that's enforced in some ironclad way. Like, for example, thinking that if you have a 2-fret stretch (eg, 1-3 or 2-4), you always have to play it with 1 and 3 or 2 and 4. What it should really be viewed as, IMO, is being entirely comfortable with using any of your four LH fingers on any string at any position on the neck, as necessary. It's a matter of full-time four-finger availability. When 1-3 works better, do that; when 1-4 works better, do that.
And yes, also shift when it helps.
And yes, also shift when it helps.
