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Switching from OFPF to 1-2-4 Left Hand Technique

#41
Richard Lindsey said:
I wrote a long-ish post about this elsewhere years back, but I can't find it. Anyway, TL;DR, I'd contend that so-called OFPF is often misunderstood. It shouldn't be viewed as something that's enforced in some ironclad way. Like, for example, thinking that if you have a 2-fret stretch (eg, 1-3 or 2-4), you always have to play it with 1 and 3 or 2 and 4. What it should really be viewed as, IMO, is being entirely comfortable with using any of your four LH fingers on any string at any position on the neck, as necessary. It's a matter of full-time four-finger availability. When 1-3 works better, do that; when 1-4 works better, do that.

And yes, also shift when it helps.
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An aspirational goal is for fingering to be automatic. You read the notes off a page or think of a bass line, and your fingers make it happen without conscious thought.

In order to significantly realize this goal, one fingering system has to take priority over other options. There is not time to consider doing it two ways.

The primary system I use on bass guitar is my personal form of OFPF. Sometimes my fingering system breaks for a variety of reasons. When this happens, it's necessary to stop and figure out what to do. Lot's of options.
 
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#42
Wasnex said:
An aspirational goal is for fingering to be automatic. You read the notes off a page or think of a bass line, and your fingers make it happen without conscious thought.

In order to significantly realize this goal, one fingering system has to take priority over other options.
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I wonder, though. In my idler moments I think, maybe OFPF, at least as I understand it, isn't a system at all, but the absence of one. (Can I patent the term "full-time four-finger availability" [FTFFA]?;))

But then, I come at this from the POV of having played classical guitar first, where OFPF vs 1-2-4 just isn't any kind of thing, and you're expected to be able to use any of your fingers in any position if necessary, of course within physical limits.

EDIT: And as for fingering becoming automatic, I'd suggest that for it to be truly automatic, one should already have internalized several options for many scenarios. In music, you're usually coming from somewhere and going somewhere, and different fingering options might be preferable, depending on where you've been and where you're going.
 
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#43
Richard Lindsey said:
In my idler moments I think, maybe OFPF, at least as I understand it, isn't a system at all, but the absence of one. (Can I patent the term "full-time four-finger availability" [FTFFA]?;))
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I definitely have some semblance of an organized system, but I have been using OFPF since the early 90s. Consistency is required for automation. When you have choices, you have to choose...and choosing takes awareness and time.

In many common situations, I have a primary way of fingering that just happens. Various alternate fingerings are possible and in many instances played in. Some require a little conscious thought and some require stopping and working out viable options. Lots of gradation between the two extremes.

My distinction for OFPF is literal: At a given position on the neck, four fingers are assigned to four frets and I can play any of the frets without a need to shift, pivot, or microshift.

My automated (primary) response does not switch between OFPF and Simandl. In fact I find switching between fingering systems on bass guitar to be confusing...and it reduces my fluency with OFPF. That's not to say I don't consciously switch to Simandl when necessary. Also I seem to be able to use Simandl on upright without any problem. However, I never could get comfortable on fretless bass guitar because my hand is not big enough, so I would have to revert to Simandl. My choice was to get an EUB that sounded more like a fretless bass than an upright. I could never get my intonation to settle on a long scale fretless. I was instantly comfortable on 42" scale EUB.

I also sometimes use a four finger approach that uses micro-shifts to avoid over-spreading the fingers. This approach can generate shift and finger combination that are distinctly different from my vision of OFPF. Some TB members I have discussed this approach with purposely avoid using OFPF. Basically this means they use all four fingers, but avoid spreading their fingers to play across three half steps without using a shift, pivot or micro-shift. Also the fingers are not strictly assigned one per fret. I think this approach may be more inline with what you are envisioning.
 
#44
Wasnex said:
I also sometimes use a four finger approach that uses micro-shifts to avoid over-spreading the fingers. This approach can generate shift and finger combination that are distinctly different from my vision of OFPF. Some TB members I have discussed this approach with purposely avoid using OFPF. Basically this means they use all four fingers, but avoid spreading their fingers to play across three half steps without using a shift, pivot or micro-shift. Also the fingers are not strictly assigned one per fret. I think this approach may be more inline with what you are envisioning.
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That does sound closer to what I do. However, I frequently play across three half steps without shifting or pivoting. I learned to do it when learning guitar, and it's become more or less second nature. My hands aren't huge, but they're (just barely) big enough to allow that on a 34" scale BG. However, I don't hold my LH fingers extended one-per-fret all the time, only when I need to. I relax them when I don't need to spread them. I think that's probably not uncommon. But I don't know for sure if it's a system by the commonly accepted definition, or what it would be called if it is. But I would still be inclined to consider it OFPF--at least by my definition.
 
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#45
Whousedtoplay said:
All my fingers are strong enough especially my pinkie, but I just try to avoid that "spectacle" of "lifting your pinky."
When I watch bass players' youtube videos and see it happening, it makes me "cringe."

It's only my personal opinion/view.


View attachment 7391739
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Better let these guys know:
1766125015081.png

1766125030715.png
 
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#47
Whousedtoplay said:
It's a DIFFERENT instrument!
It's a different playing position!
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If you just followed the fingering guides for the 'cello you would never know this level of freedom. It is the same with the electric bass!

Specifically, in the fretless arena, you have to get those fingers out of the way to execute a worthwhile vibrato and make a true physical connection with the strings through the fingertip. Not only are they out of the way, they also contribute to the control of weight distribution and balance in the hand.
 
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#48
SteveCS said:
If you just followed the fingering guides for the 'cello you would never know this level of freedom. It is the same with the electric bass!

Specifically, in the fretless arena, you have to get those fingers out of the way to execute a worthwhile vibrato and make a true physical connection with the strings through the fingertip. Not only are they out of the way, they also contribute to the control of weight distribution and balance in the hand.
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Additionaly, there is no tension in the "floating" fingers. I play cello too (not like these guys) and the fingering and shifting approach is similar.
 
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#49
djmay said:
Additionaly, there is no tension in the "floating" fingers. I play cello too (not like these guys) and the fingering and shifting approach is similar.
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To be honest, as a fretless player I've learned more over the years about hand-shape/posture, intonation, fingering, shifting, reduction of tension and 'safe' technique (and how these factors all interact and relate to each other) from seeing and hearing well-trained cellists and string-bass players than I have from most electric bass players.
 
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#54
Richard Lindsey said:
And as for fingering becoming automatic, I'd suggest that for it to be truly automatic, one should already have internalized several options for many scenarios. In music, you're usually coming from somewhere and going somewhere, and different fingering options might be preferable, depending on where you've been and where you're going.
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I totally agree with your statement!
 
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#55
Wasnex said:
I would probably play 1,2,3,shift 1,2,3.
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Third and Fourth fingers work (almost) like one in Simandl's 1-2-4.
"The third finger acts as a "support" for the pinkie as they both share a tendon, in which case the third finger doesn't need to be anywhere specific on the fingerboard."
I've tried to use 1-2-3 (and I can easily do it) but I've felt some "stretching and straining" in my left hand while playing the bass guitar in a regular position.

P.S. When I've changed my bass guitar to playing like the cello - the bass fretboard is right with my left ear - that stretching and straining have disappeared.
Go figure.:hyper:
 
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#56
Whousedtoplay said:
Steve,

Your correct comment has NOTHING TO DO with any "hanging" pinkies of many YOUTUBE bass players!
NOTHING!
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That is true. My point was to illustrate that the hand should be flexible, relaxed and articulate, not locked in, stiff, rigid or tense. Playing an instrument is a dynamic process, something that isn't easy to grasp from static images. We've been here before...
 
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#57
Whousedtoplay said:
Third and Fourth fingers work (almost) like one in Simandl's 1-2-4.
"The third finger acts as a "support" for the pinkie as they both share a tendon, in which case the third finger doesn't need to be anywhere specific on the fingerboard."
I've tried to use 1-2-3 (and I can easily do it) but I've felt some "stretching and straining" in my left hand while playing the bass guitar in a regular position.

P.S. When I've changed my bass guitar to playing like the cello - the bass fretboard is right with my left ear - that stretching and straining have disappeared.
Go figure.:hyper:
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That element of the method only applies (if that is the right word) in lower positions. As you move up the fingerboard 4 is replaced by 3. Once again (at least IME) cello fingerings, including the concepts of extended fingerings, become far more appropriate to EB, once you move above, say, stops 6-8. Above the octave the classical string methods all go out of the window because we have far better access to those higher notes because we are unhindered by the heel and body. For us it's just more of the same thing!
 
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#59
SteveCS said:
To be honest, as a fretless player I've learned more over the years about hand-shape/posture, intonation, fingering, shifting, reduction of tension and 'safe' technique (and how these factors all interact and relate to each other) from seeing and hearing well-trained cellists and string-bass players than I have from most electric bass players.
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Could not agree more. Playing fretless over last 5 months has greatly improved my fingering skills, I wish I had picked one up years ago. Best $475 I ever spent on gear in my life (SR370EF)! My ears are better now too.
 
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