Switching Instruments

[Bassic Playing]

Hey guys,

So, I'd like to be able to switch between my bass and trumpet, both running through effects pedals. Here is what I would like to happen. Bass goes through pedals into amp. I then press a button, and trumpet goes through pedals (from a mic) out through the PA. I would like it even better if they had separate EQs on the channels, but I can survive without.

Is there any way to do this? I feel like the newer Radial unit might do it, but I am unfamiliar with this sort of thing.

EDIT: Also mods, if this should have gone in Live Sound, my apologies.

 

[JimmyM]

If bass goes to amp and PA and trumpet goes to PA without going to your amp, why do they need switched? Are you sharing effects between the bass and trumpet? There are things you can buy to make it work for you, but to me it's sounding like a needless step unless you're sharing effects, which I probably wouldn't recommend. Bass and trumpet have totally different PA needs and shouldn't share a line. They should each have their own line. I'm thinking just install a kill switch on the trumpet mic to shut it off till you need it. Probably don't even need to do that unless it's up really loud.

 

[Bassic Playing]

If bass goes to amp and PA and trumpet goes to PA without going to your amp, why do they need switched? Are you sharing effects between the bass and trumpet? There are things you can buy to make it work for you, but to me it's sounding like a needless step unless you're sharing effects, which I probably wouldn't recommend. Bass and trumpet have totally different PA needs and shouldn't share a line. They should each have their own line. I'm thinking just install a kill switch on the trumpet mic to shut it off till you need it. Probably don't even need to do that unless it's up really loud.

Trumpet and bass would be going through the same effects, yes. Sorry if I wasn't clear, but that is the main goal, that I can play my bass, then switch to my trumpet, and have them both going through my pedal board, but without going through the same speakers, so that no explosions occur.

I am curious as to why you wouldn't recommend sharing effects? And no, the bass is not going through the PA, I realise that would be a poor idea.

 

[JimmyM]

Bass not going through the PA IS a bad idea unless your PA can't handle it, and then it's a very very good idea Bass can take out PA's without strong enough subs, for sure.

Man, that's pretty much next to impossible with one switcher. You would need to have something to switch between bass and trumpet mic with EQ for the trumpet, and then you'd need a switcher to switch between amp and PA, but that one wouldn't need EQ because you have EQ on your bass amp and PA mixer. So every time you switch you'd have to hit two footswitches. And then there's the issue of the 1/4" high impedance jacks vs the 3-pin XLR jacks for the PA, although there are workarounds for that like transforming adapters.

And that's why I recommended not sharing effects and running two separate lines. It's a lot of work to go through, and the stuff you need could cost you as much as a second decent digital effects processor for your trumpet. Plus it's not like trumpet and bass have a lot of sonic similarities, so why try to run on the same line? I get that you're likely trying to do this on a budget, but sometimes what seems to be the cheapest way can be the most costly, know what I mean?

 

[ehque]

Use this.

http://www.loop-master.com/stereo-p-259.html

It is a stereo A/B pedal. Basically a combination of 2 A/B boxes in one box. A/B boxes have one input and switch between the A and the B output.

The trick is that since this is a passive box, you can use one side to switch one OUTPUT between two INPUTS, and the other side to switch one INPUT between two OUTPUTS.

Basically:

Input 1: INPUT into Pedalboard
Input 2: OUTPUT from Pedalboard
Output 1A: Bass
Output 2A: Bass Amp
Output 1B: Trumpet Mic
Output 2B: DI to PA

 

[Bassic Playing]

And that's why I recommended not sharing effects and running two separate lines. It's a lot of work to go through, and the stuff you need could cost you as much as a second decent digital effects processor for your trumpet. Plus it's not like trumpet and bass have a lot of sonic similarities, so why try to run on the same line? I get that you're likely trying to do this on a budget, but sometimes what seems to be the cheapest way can be the most costly, know what I mean?

I bow to your wisdom Jimmy Thanks for your help, I see now that it was the logistical nightmare I feared. I guess that a multi fx for trumpet will be the better solution. Thanks again.

 

[ehque]

If you wish to pursue my solution anyway (I'm just showing you it can be done with a "one box, one button" solution), you'll probably need to have a gain pedal on your trumpet mic to bring it to the same volume as your bass. So instead of:

Trumpet Mic -> Loopmaster

You have:

Trumpet Mic -> Gain Pedal -> Loopmaster

Then if you mic up your bass amp into the PA, you're golden.

 

[JimmyM]

Hmmm....maybe that would work.

 

[Bassic Playing]

If you wish to pursue my solution anyway (I'm just showing you it can be done with a "one box, one button" solution), you'll probably need to have a gain pedal on your trumpet mic to bring it to the same volume as your bass. So instead of:

Trumpet Mic -> Loopmaster

You have:

Trumpet Mic -> Gain Pedal -> Loopmaster

Then if you mic up your bass amp into the PA, you're golden.

Wow, thanks. So in this end scenario, we go

Trumpet-> Gain Pedal-> Loopmaster->PA

Press other channel and go to

Bass->Loopmaster->Amp-> Miced to PA?

That sounds like it wouldn't be too technical and wire hazardy. Hahaha I feel like I've thrown myself into the technical deep end with these strange wishes

 

[ehque]

Wow, thanks. So in this end scenario, we go

Trumpet-> Gain Pedal-> Loopmaster->PA

Press other channel and go to

Bass->Loopmaster->Amp-> Miced to PA?

That sounds like it wouldn't be too technical and wire hazardy. Hahaha I feel like I've thrown myself into the technical deep end with these strange wishes

Yes that is the basic idea. The actual end scenario is:

Trumpet-> Gain Pedal-> Loopmaster-> Effects Chain-> Loopmaster-> PA

Press other channel and go to

Bass-> Loopmaster-> Effects Chain-> Loopmaster-> Amp-> Miced to PA

Have the loopmaster on your board permanently. Set up is only: plug in 4 cables, set up your mics, and you're ready to go.

If you want EQ after that you can use the EQ on the amp for your bass and on the PA mixer for the trumpet.

Make sure your gains are set up properly (trumpet and bass roughly the same volume) and you should have no problem.

 

[klingguruh]

To change between Bass and Acoustic Guitar I use Basswitch (switching, levelmatching, EQ) into FX then into Lehle Little Dual for switching between DI Bass channel -> amp or DI Guitar channel. For a microphone something like the Eventide Mixinglink might be necessary to bring the signal to instrument level.

 

[hrodbert696]

Seems to me, if you wanted them both going through the effects loop, but then one to the bass amp and the other to the PA, you would need both an A/B box going in and an I/O box going out, wouldn't you? Or, I guess, ehque's loopmaster box that does both in one pedal. Still going to be a couple of clicks to get the right signal going to the right place, not just one.

Have you already played your trumpet through your bass effects and liked it? I'm with JimmyM being skeptical on this one, but if you know it's a good sound, more power to you.

 

[ehque]

you would need both an A/B box going in and an I/O box going out, wouldn't you?

Not sure what an I/O box is, but passive switching is electrically identical regardless of whether you are switching between 2 inputs or 2 outputs. Active switching is another matter altogether. You'll probably need 2 different boxes, but you do get a couple of nice things like silent switching.

So you need 2 A/B circuits (basically 2DPT switches) - one to switch between the amp/PA, the other to switch between the bass/trumpet. The 4PDT switch inside the box I posted is like 2 2PDT switches mashed together in one switch, and acts like 2 A/B circuits in this application.

Or, I guess, ehque's loopmaster box that does both in one pedal. Still going to be a couple of clicks to get the right signal going to the right place, not just one.

The loopmaster I posted does it in one click with a 4PDT switch.

Have you already played your trumpet through your bass effects and liked it? I'm with JimmyM being skeptical on this one, but if you know it's a good sound, more power to you.

I'm a little skeptical too. Once, I put my English Muffin on my vocalist's channel and it sounded like crud. It will depend on the type of effects. Overdrives, distortions, and fuzzes will probably sound bad, the others should be OK. But you should test everything first. Remember that the trumpet sound from the PA will need to be louder than the trumpet itself.

But of course, I'm here to provide solutions, not ask questions.

 

[themark1]

Its not a big deal it's totally depends on our finger.

 

[Bassic Playing]

Seems to me, if you wanted them both going through the effects loop, but then one to the bass amp and the other to the PA, you would need both an A/B box going in and an I/O box going out, wouldn't you? Or, I guess, ehque's loopmaster box that does both in one pedal. Still going to be a couple of clicks to get the right signal going to the right place, not just one.

Have you already played your trumpet through your bass effects and liked it? I'm with JimmyM being skeptical on this one, but if you know it's a good sound, more power to you.

Yes, I'm thinking a separate multi-fx might be the simplest option.

And yes, I got onto it after seeing a friend do it with his sax. Trumpet with delay and reverb is a really beautiful sound, and wah is a classic. Also, octave divider works surprisingly well, especially if you are playing high parts in a band context, and don't have other brass to back you up. Obviously, it's not an all the time thing, because (like bass), I prefer a clean tone, so that effects really stand out when I use them.

If you're interested, this guy does a fairly good demo on youtube.

 

[Bassic Playing]

. But you should test everything first. Remember that the trumpet sound from the PA will need to be louder than the trumpet itself.

But of course, I'm here to provide solutions, not ask questions.

Yes, overdrive on trumpet is not great, unless you are going for some kind of wild non-trumpet sound. As for the PA thing, it is actually kind of convenient, because it allows for a natural dry/wet split.

 

[TerribleLiar23]

What about this?

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[JimmyM]

Only thing I'd wonder is if its effects are more guitar based than bass based. A lot of guitar effects cut low end pretty good, especially overdrives. You lose balls when that happens.

 

[Unemploid]

i saw this at sam ash the last time i was their. i think this is what you want. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[ehque]

What about this?

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Won't work, since it doesn't switch between instruments.

i saw this at sam ash the last time i was their. i think this is what you want. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It is, but you'd need 2. So the Loopmaster is probably cheaper, better (only one footswitch), and takes up less space on your board.